413/440 Thermostat sources

[Daved27c]

Sent: 12/18/2003


The 440-3 skirted thermostat (P/N 3512998) is no longer stocked by Chrysler.  Where can I find one?   Dave

[denisondc]

Sent: 12/19/2003

Even the Stant 2003 catalog doesn't call out any thermostat for a 413 specifically. You have to take it on faith that the 440 listings for a range of years would fit. And I have to admit, the 180 degree thermostat I am using now is the same as what would go into a passenger car 440. It worked properly in temperatures up to 100 degrees in the summer of 2002, but I had gotten the radiator cleaned just one year earlier, and had made up a steel liner to partly block off the cold-loop in the water pump housing. I am still seeking the 180 degree thermostat having the -skirt- or sleeve on its bottom. denison

[DaveVA78Chieftain]

Sent: 12/21/2003


Mopar P/N 3514774 (185 deg) and 3514181 (195 deg)
Both a 1977 dodge MBL300 440 engine (Class C Van chassis the other thread) and a Dodge 1 ton

I am just trying to save some people a bunch of research and questions since the usual suppliers like stant no longer list a thermostat and Mopar no longer has them.  I did see a catalog today at Auto Zone that listed a thermostat for M400 with a 440.  The pic of it even showed that skirt on it like Enigma's tstat.bmp one above.  Thing is, they then cross the book number to a Autozone number.  The one that crosses to does not  have a skirt.  Have no idea if that one would work.  So anyone looking be careful when looking for a 440-3 thermostat. 

Dave

[Sea Hag]

Lefty or Dave the air cleaner sticker on my 67 Cheif 440 3  has mopar part # 3837 609 and a drawing of the skirted type thermostat 185 degree - can you try to cross over this number ? the third digit was worn it could be 3887 609 - I know it makes a difference as the engine is ported differently than the cars or vans -  my dodge parts manual list the number Dave has 3514 181  as a 185 degree for 318 ,413, and 440 up to 1975  it was pictured as the none skirted type - we tried one a while back in my other rig and it still ran hot until we replaced it with the skirted type ---- Sea Hag

[denisondc]

Sent: 12/23/2003

I want someone with a 440-3 to take a close up picture of the top of the water pump housing where the thermostat sits - but with the thermostat removed. And then post the picture. I want to see if it has the same kind of passages below the inner ring, as does my 413s water pump housing. The skirted thermostat I have is a stant 195f. I asked for the next number lower, which is a 180f, and it didn't have the skirt either. But I solved the immediate problem by making up my own sleeve to control the flow. I still want to get to the bottom of the thermostat mystery. denison

[MSN Member]

Hi Dave
I have the "Stewart" catalog and also installed the stage 1 water pump & related componets in my 454 chebby.
Web site catalog is http://www.waterpumps.com
Tech line is (336)859-2555
Fax line is   (906)789-7825
Order line   (906)789-2816
Everyone will find them extremely helpful with ANY type of engine and heating problems.

[AllanCZ]

Sent: 3/14/2006

According to the pictures on their website, it looks like Checker/Schuck's/Kragen might have the skirted thermostats.

http://www.cskauto.com

Prestone Thermostat, Power Performance
PN's 370160, 370170, 370180, 370195
160, 170, 180 & 195 degrees respectively.
$12.99 each

We have Checker here so I'll go check in-store soon.

Allan

[AllanCZ]

Sent: 3/14/2006

Here's a link to it at the Prestone site:

http://prestone.com/index.php

Allan

[denisondc]

Sent: 3/14/2006

If you don’t live near any of the stores listed in the Prestone locater links (like me), you can order it online from two sources and get it delivered to your house. From www.summitracing.com. Search for their part number; MRG-4367, for the 180° therm. MRG-4366 for the 160° therm.
And from www.stewartcomponents.com, their part #s 304, 305, or 306 - which is the 195°f if anybody wants one. I think they are all made by RobertShaw, who sells only to distributors.
The thermostats for the 413-1 engine need to be the skirted type, same as the 440-3. I even carry an extra one with us on trips, since the one in the engine is now far from new.

[AllanCZ]

Sent: 3/30/2006

Hiya Denison!

The Stewart site says the 304-306 thermostats are modified by them and have to be used with their Stage 2, 3 or 4 water pumps.

Are they correct for the "special apps" they list (stock), or do you have to also get their water pump?

Thanks,
Allan

[Easy]

Sent: 3/30/2006

I just got the Mr Gasket #4366 (160°) which is physically identical to the stock 195° thermostat that's in my 440-3.
None of the local parts stores had one in stock, so I called a friend of mine who owns a parts warehouse that
supplies all the local stores. He called his connection in NY and the thermostat was in my hands the
next day.....free even! w00t...I can't wait to get this thermostat in.

[denisondc]

Sent: 3/31/2006

AllanCZ; As far as i can tell, the -modification- is just the little hole drilled in the sides of the baffle to let some water get by during warm up. You can use their thermostat with any water pump. All they are saying is that to get the full benefit of the skirted thermostat, you need to use a high flow water pump - sold by them.
But the water pump that came with a motorhome chassis would have been a -heavy duty- type anyway. (Unless someone has replaced it with a normal capacity water pump from a car.)

[Daved27c]

Sent: 3/31/2006

Hey Dave Denison,
Found this on another web site.   Does this describe the why you need to use a skirted thermostat?  - Dave

The Robertshaw 370 series thermostats have a dual function.
Unlike the flat disc-type t-stat, the 370 has a skirt that moves up and down.
If the t-stat housing is made for this unit, it will have a seat down below the skirt.
When the engine is cold, the water flows from the block through a bypass hose or passage, maintaining good flow in the block.
When the engine gets to temp, the skirt drops, allowing less flow through the bypass and more through the radiator.
When the engine is pulling a good hill (temp above setpoint), the skirt blocks the bypass completely, and the bulk of the flow is directed to the radiator.
Advantages include better flow in the block, better warm-up, and better cooling flow through the radiator.
There is no need for a rubber seat below the skirt. (Some larger t-stats of this design have a lip seal that rides on the O.D. of the skirt, allowing for more precise control)
Using a flat-type t-stat in a housing that has a bypass port will not allow full flow to the radiator, limiting cooling capacity.
Design is used extensively in bigger diesel engines.

[denisondc]

Sent: 3/31/2006

Yes, thats a good description. When the engine is cold, the water flows back around the cylinders, then up into the head at several points, forward through the head, and repeats the process.
The same -skirted- type of thermostat was used in many GM cars beginning in the later 20's. My 32 Chevy used the same design, but everything is about half as big.
My experience with the 413 in my 72 Winny is that the regular type thermostat will work -o.k.- If the radiator is clean and the fan clutch is strong; though the temp gauge will show up/down meandering now and then, even on level roads at steady speeds.
With the skirted thermostat, the wtr temp gauge needle pretty much stays on one place, except rising slightly on long up grades and dropping back down on the downgrade.

[ClydesdaleKevin]

Sent: 6/24/2006

I bought 2 skirted 160 degree thermostats for the Ark (413) from Summit Racing, and they even gave me a cool hat...lol...now, if I only wore hats...

Kev

[Mosin]

I order from Summitracing.com all the time...good prices and quick shipping. They have the skirted thermostats (Mr. Gasket #4367 for 440s). They have the copper gaskets as well, but I'm pretty sure not the brake

[toddabney]

hello,well i got a skirted thermostat and copper exaust gasket ordered.when i first contacted them there were not sure if they were skirted.the picture of #4367 dosen't show it being skirted and the guy didn't think it was.well i wanted to be sure i got a skirted one so i called back and explaned my worry and he looked one up and saw that yes it did have a skirt on it and they were going to change the picture. and so thats that.thanks again this site is great,todd

[drev59]

Just placed an order at local speed shop for a Stewart Components #306 /195 degree thermostat. Currently my 440 has a Mr.gasket 180 degree installed and in the spring and fall it runs too cool. A huge improvement was replacing the stock clutch fan with a standard 6 blade fan. With the proper spacer block to position the fan in the shroud the engine runs far cooler than before. On the factory temp. gauge it barely gets to the first line. I installed a mechanical gauge and on warmer days (90 degrees) it stays around 185-190 max. Cool days below 180. I'll post the difference after I receive and install the 195.....

[drev59]

 Got my thermostat from Stewart Components and installed it. Went for a few test runs and water temp stayed between 190 and 200 on both cooler and warmer days. Will have a better idea how it works in a few weeks as we plan on going to Picton Ontario approx 6 hr. drive. Hope them fuel prices continue to fall...............
                  Drev59

[russmehl]

I had the usual success with finding the right thermostat...they said it was the right one... i??

But then I got lucky and found someone local!

http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/thermostats.html

This is:
Detroit Performance Center / Mancini Racing
33524 Kelly Rd.
Clinton Twp., MI 48035
800-843-2821

info@manciniracing.com

[lumpy]

www.performanceparts.com   put in part # 4367   

mr gasket skirted thermostat

[DaveVA78Chieftain]

Lots of info here but no pictures.  77Brave had taken a picture of the thermostat differences so I am posting it here for reference.
The "a picture is worth a 1000 words sort of thing.

Dave

[smg id=1330]

[DivinylRecords]

so ive been waiting now two months for this skirted thermostat from summit racing, they keep pushing back the shipping date (its on backorder) any other sources someone told me rock auto but i cant find it on theyre site.. Another question my tie rod is bent really bad and im trying to source that bar for my 73 dodge travco m375>?

[DaveVA78Chieftain]

Mr Gasket 4367 (180 Degree)

EBAY

Advance Auto (online)

Google


Not sure about a M-375 Tie Rod Tube

[turbinebronze]

Do be careful of the Mr. Gasket thermostat. I bought one (looks like the skirted stat needed) and installed it. Let it warm up and all was good. Drove to work for a test drive and on the way home the stat failed to open. (I also found the limit of the temp gauge. The factory gauge never read over 1/2). Took out a head gasket on my 318-3.
I took it out and tested it hanging in a pan of water with a candy thermometer. It never opened with the water at full boil!
  At least check the stat for operation before installing. I checked a few stats after that and very few would even start to open at there stated temp. They all seemed to like 195F...
  Just my 2 cents...Craig