Refurbishing rusty fuel tanks, POR-15

[Photoman]

Sent: 9/9/2003

I'm trying to get a '72 D22 running that I bought last year.  Has rust in gas tanks, and I'm going to take them out, clean them, and use the Por-15 to coat the insides.  Any tips or suggestions on doing this?  Is it necessary to coat the outside, too?  I need 2 kits to do 2 tanks, right?  I think I read about some kind of a sock in the gas tank.  I assume this has to come out.  How?  Can it be replaced with a new sock?  Crew or athletic? LOL  Would appreciate hearing from someone who has done this.  I know da Rat has experience is this area, but haven't seen his posts for a long time.  Thanks.  Photoman

[MSN Member]

Sent: 9/10/2003

photoman, just make sure you follow the directions they include. Also, you can probably do more than one tank with one kit. You have to remove the sending unit from the tank and then seal up the hole, but that's not difficult...just be careful pulling the sending unit out of the tank...it's rather long. The only part of their directions I didn't follow exactly was the rust removal... I did it twice, just to be sure.
I assume you're also removing the rust with the POR-15? It works quite well and is probably needed to prepare the metal for the sealer.
Since I also got the "Super White" paint for the roof of the RV (It's expensive! and worth it), I painted the outside of the gas and water tanks -and the roof(!) - with that one gallon of paint. Nothing has leaked since.

After you drop the tank, the sensor/sending unit is removed by taking out the retaining screws. Any sealant that gets onto the hole threads is easily removed after it dries, but you might want to get an assortment of rubber cone-shaped plugs from Lowe's or somewhere similar to put into the various holes so you don't HAVE to clean the threads afterward. Let the sealant dry completely before removing the plugs. You can also get regular plumbing plugs to put into the various threaded holes..1/2 inch being most common size, but your's may be different.

It's been several years since I did mine, so I may have forgotten a step or two, but that should help a little...

[denisondc]

Sent: 9/10/2003

It might be a good time to replace the sending units, if you can find them at a reasonable price. JCWhitney used to carry them, but i think you need to know the resistance range, which is something like from 9 to 90 ohms - cause I don't know if JCW identifies them as being replacements for mopar tank senders. I would replace the socks too, if it has them, and if you can find them for sale. They are a mesh thats is supposed to hold back the rust flakes big enough to clog the metal fuel line itself. They let the finer silt go through, for your filter to stop, its a good design. I don't think my aux tank had a sock in it, but I had one from a later model car that I slid over the pickup tube anyway. denison

[Photoman]

Sent: 9/10/2003

Man, don't know what I'd do without you guys.  Good to hear from you again, Rat.  Thanks to all of you for taking the time to share your knowledge & experience with dummies like me.  I'm still waiting for my shipment of Por-15 products to arrive.  I did order some of the White Cote Paint to paint the top half of the driver's outside wall that is flaking so bad the bare aluminum is showing.  Also ordered enough Por-15, cleaner, topcoat, etc., to re-finish the wrought-iron on our house.  Guess I should have bought stock in the company, as my total came to over $280!
Photoman

[EM-50]

Sent: 9/10/2003

Photoman,

I have done a lot of work to my winnie and am getting ready to drop my side tank to clean it and seal it.  But for $280.00 would it have been just as easy to buy a new tank?  That is what I am considering doing.  Please reply with suggestions. 

EM-50

[MSN Member]

Sent: 9/11/2003

EM, it won't cost you that much just to clean & seal your tank. Photoman's doing a lot of other stuff too, and he bought a lot more than you would need. At most, you would need only the pint or quart of stripper/cleaner, and the smallest amount of the sealer they sell. I think it's a pint.
For a better idea of what it would cost, check the prices thru the 'resources' link...

[EM-50]

Sent: 9/11/2003

I went to the POR 15 web site and ordered their 25-gallon fuel tank kit.  My brother in law has used it to restore his Buick, so I will give it a try.  he kit was 60.00 with shipping.  I will post y results after completing the job is completed.

Thanks,
EM-50

[MSN Member]

Sent: 9/11/2003

Great. As I cautioned photoman, please be careful to follow their instructions, especially concerning cure times...don't rush it. I was amazed at all the gunk it cleaned out of my tank!

Good luck with it and DO keep us posted..

[Photoman]

Sent: 9/12/2003

They sell a Por-15 tank repair kit that I think is $49.95 and will coat a 25 gal. tank. I ordered 2 kits since I have dual tanks, and then I ordered a bunch of other related products for other projects I plan to tackle that are not necessarily related to my Winnie. If $100 bucks will solve the problems I'm having with rust in the fuel lines, it will be the best $100 I've spent in a long time! Photoman

[EM-50]

Sent: 9/19/2003

I ordered the kit and poured the first quart of cleaner in and turned it every two hours like the instruction said.  After I dumped it out a lot of rusty pieces came out.  I put my finger through the sending unit hole to see how clean the first batch cleaned and there was still a lot of rust under there.  This surprised me.  Do you think I should continue with the kit or should I look into other options.

EM-50

[MSN Member]

Sent: 9/21/2003

EM...I don't know. I have a very small goose-neck flashlight that fits through the sender hole, and I just used that to see how it looked inside. I really don't remember if I used the cleaner twice, but it surprises me you might need to. I do remember I let it sit overnight. Can you tell how much rust might still be in it? I mean, is it all in one spot or is there rust still all over the insides?
If it was me, and the tank still had rust, I'd try more POR -15 before I'd try something else. If that stuff can't clean it, I can't imagine what else might. Can you find a way to actually SEE inside the tank?
My small goose-neck flashlight was made by "Zelco Industries, Inc", out of Mt. Vernon, NY, and I've used it for things like this countless times, but I don't remember where I actually bought it or for how much. The bulb end is only a half inch wide, on an eight-inch flex-neck.

Wish I could be more help with your rust, but I don't know of anything that cleans better than the POR-15. You know, if it isn't a lot, you can seal over it...it just won't hold up as long. How long? I don't know.

Good luck!

[denisondc]

Sent: 9/21/2003

EM-50: You mentioned the possibility of buying a new fuel tank, as an alternative to spending at least $280 on materials to clean your existing tank. I keep looking for inexpensive replacement tanks - and found a company called Transfer Flow, www.transferflow.com, and ordered one of their catalogs. Their tanks meet all the many federal motor vehicle laws, so my insurance company would probably like it, and their tanks seem to run from $800 to $1400 dollars!! That is for metal tanks in similar sizes. Have you any info on replacement 25 to 30 gallon tanks that are less expensive?? Can anyone in the group provide info here? denison

[Photoman]

Sent: 9/22/2003

EM-50...Photoman here. I'm working on the same project you are...cleaning rust out of my gas tanks on my 72 D22 Indian. I'm suing the Por-15 kit also. I've had the cleaner (that's mixed 1:1 with hot water) sloshing around in the
tanks for 4 days now. I've been in no hurry to dump it out since I'm waiting for a couple new fuel level sending units to arrive from JC Whitney. I have checked like you did by sticking my finger in thru the sending unit hole and found there to still be rust around the inside of the hole. I have to admit that I didn't have have the tanks turned upside down near as much as I did other positions simply because I couldn't get the hole sealed completely and the cleaner started leaking out. I think it must loosen the adhesive on the duct tape I have sealing the hole. I ordered an extra gallon of the cleaner just in case I needed it, but hate to use it if I don't have to...kinda expensive stuff.

What did you sending units look like? One of mine was terribly rusty & didn't read correctly with an ohm meter. The other was rusty, too, but not as bad and seemed to be working okay, but I thought as long as I had the tanks out,
I'd replace them both. I'll keep you posted on my progress. Photoman

[EM-50]

Sent: 9/22/2003

Photoman,

I think what I am going to do is this.  I am going to use a small mirror to go inside the tank and see the top side of the tank.  If it is bad I then am going to figure out a way to bend a wire brush to knock off the big rust and just let the POR -15 cover the smaller stuff as best as I can.  The cost of 800-1500 is way out of my budget for a metal tank, but if anyone knows of a less expensive alternative that would be great.  Thanks everyone for great suggestions and prompt replies.

EM-50

[MSN Member]

Sent: 9/22/2003

I dug out my old shipping slip from POR-15, and found I ordered a gallon of the cleaner. Which made me remember. I did as photoman did, and left it in the tank for several days, constantly moving the tank around. Then, when I saw how much gunk came out, I decided to make sure it was ALL out so I repeated it, using more from the gallon. This time it came out almost clear and the tank was nearly spotless inside.
I immediately (if I remember right) etched it and used the sealer.
Oh. On the very last hole, the one I poured the cleaner through, I inserting a rubber plug and then taped it down tight. All the rest were sealed with plumbing plugs. One of the advantages of the old metal tank.
Anyway, that was June of '02, and so far not one drop has leaked. (Seems longer that that).

[Derrek]

Sent: 9/23/2003

As far as replacing the fuel tanks, I think that using "plastic" (for lack of a better term) fuel cells (fuel tank) would be a good replacement. Being that they are designed to be used in race cars I am sure that they would meet or exceed safety requirements and would be less likely to rupture in a crash as compared to the steel tanks. After doing a Google search the largest fuel cell I could find was 32 gallon and was around $140.

[EM-50]

Sent: 9/26/2003

Well after looking more closely at my tank the bottem and sides are in very good shape.  The top needs the most work.  I ran a second can of cleaner through the tank and knocked off the major rust.  I will next run high pressure of air through the tank to get ride of any pieces of junk that are left inside the tank.  Then when I put the por 15 in I will make sure to cover the top the best and do the best I can on the sides.  Should have that completed by Sunday and installing The tank by the first of the month. 

Thanks,
EM-50

[Photoman]

Sent: 9/28/2003

Just an update on the tank cleaning progress. I think the tanks are pretty much dried out after running heat guns in them for about 4 hours. I could still hear some loose stuff shifting around in the smaller tank when I rotated it,
so I sneaked the little lady's Kirby vacuum hose out of the closet (cuz it was small enough to fit through the filler opening) and hooked it up to my shop vacuum and was able to get most of the loose stuff out by shaking it down to the bottom corner below the filler hole and sucking it out. Next I hooked up my leaf blower and duct taped the nozzle to the filler tube and blew air into the tank and out the sender unit hole for several minutes. I plan to do the same thing tomorrow for a half hour or so and I figure the tanks should be good & dry and ready for the sealer. I know there is probably still some loose particles in there, but hopefully the sealer will take care of them. This has turned out to be quite an undertaking. Photoman

[EM-50]

Sent: 9/29/2003

Photoman,

The tank sealer seems to look really good. , This weekend I cleaned the tank out as best as I could using the products that por-15 recommended.  I then took a magnet on a string and got out the remaining rust that I couldn't get out by shaking.  I then washed it out one last time with water.  I then went to my fathers shop and used a high pressure to dry out the tank I did that for about an hour.  washed my truck their while I waited.  I then brought it home and used my wife hair dryer on high and dried it out some more.  I then let it site for 3 hours and sealed it Saturday night.  it was still a little tacky Sunday morning.  But tonight it was hard.  I bought some por-15 gloss black last week to paint on the outside as well as the brackets.  I am going to order a sending unit today so hopefully I can have it all back together by this weekend.  I will post some picture of the completed job. 

Thanks again for everyones help.

[Photoman]

Sent: 9/30/2003

Thanks for the posting EM-50. I'm still letting my tanks sit. They are all ready for the tank sealer to be poured in, but I got nervous and was afraid I didn't have enough sealer to do both tanks. The kit is supposed to do up to a
25 gal. tank. I ordered an extra gal of both the marine clean, and the metal ready solutions, but I didn't order any extra tank sealer. I just ordered 2 extra quarts of the sealer Sunday and it was shipped today (Mon.) so it sould be
here in a couple days.

While I'm waiting, I decided to clean out the gas tank on my '64 Honda Super 90 motorcycle. It's been sitting in the garage rusting for the last 30 years. I bought it when I was a junior in high school. I figure I should have plenty of the sealer left over to do the motorcycle.  Using a magnet is a good idea I never thought of. That's what I like about this
site. Everyone shares ideas to help each other out.

Did you stick something down the fuel line tube in the top of the tank to keep the sealer from plugging it up? They told me @ POR-15 to stick a big wire down there and let the sealer set up for an hour before removing the wire. I couldn't find anything bigger than a coat hanger wire, and I don't think that's big enough. I think I'll see if I can find a wooden dowel small enough to fit in there. I plan on painting the outsides of my tanks and brackets, too. Anxious to see your photos. I'll try to post some, too. Photoman

[EM-50]

Sent: 10/5/2003
No, I didn't put anything in place of the pickup tube.  I think it should be ok though.  That is probably a good idea.  I was unable to finish it this weekend, cousins wedding.    I did buy some Gloss Black POR-15 and painted the ouside of the tank, straps, and the filler tube.

EM-50

[Photoman]

Sent: 10/6/2003

EM-50...I poured in the tank sealer in my tanks Sat. and had put a heavy wire in one fuel pick up tube & a small wooden dowel in another. (One tube was smaller than the other & the dowel wouldn't fit.) I removed the dowel & wire
after the sealer had set up, and they didn't stick at all. I think you're right..probably could have gotten by without them. I'm in the process of stripping all the old paint off the tanks and going to repaint them with POR-15, and then a top coat of the glossy black. Stripping the larger tank went pretty easy using the POR stripper. The smaller tank had a yellow paint on it that isn't coming off nearly as easy. I ran out of the Por stripper & had to go to Menards to get another brand of stripper. Kinda wish I would have left it and just painted over it, but wanted the rust protection of POR-15. It's gonna be
several days before I'm done as I'm working on them in my spare time. Photoman

[EM-50]

Sent: 10/13/2003

Thanks again for everyone's help.  The tank is now installed back into the bego.  I posted pic's on my folder.  Page 6  Proud Parent of 72 Brave.  Then page 3 in my folder.  Looks great!  So far I am very satisfied with the way it turn out.  Next it's on to finish the last of four window channels, then repaint the stove to match the cabinets and then the counter-tops, all inside work.  The weather will probably changing soon so I won't be able to work outside until summer.

EM-50

[Photoman]

Sent: 10/13/2003

EM-50 Glad to hear you've got the tank re-installed. Mine are currently hanging in my garage. I painted the outsides of both of them Sunday. They look really nice. I like the way the POR-15 paint goes on. I want to put a coat
of the Glossy Black on them yet that isn't UV sensitive, like the rust preventive paint is. Our weather here has turned a little cold, so it may take longer for the paint to dry. Have you had a chance to run her yet to see if you cured the rust problem? I'll be anxious to hear.  Photoman

[MSN Member]

Sent: 10/17/2003

I'm in Houston seeing our new grandson for the first time. Sure is a cute little guy. Won't be back home until ab out the 26th. No, we didn't drive the Winnie. When I left, I had both interiors of the tanks sealed with the Por-15 tank sealer, and the outsides painted with the Por-15 rust preventive paint & top coated with the glossy black topcoat. But you won't believe what I did. It's so stupid I hate to admit it. I had put a small wooden dowel down the fuel tube before I poured the sealer in so the tube wouldn't get sealed shut and I completely forgot to take out the dowels before the sealer set up and hardened. I was able to pull 2 of them out with pliers, but the third one wouldn't let loose no how. I'm going to have deal with that problem when I get back. I may have to take it to a welder and have him take the fitting and tube out as it's been welded to the tank. I should have used a wire instead of a dowel, but I didn't have any wire that I thought was big enough. Dowels would have worked fine if I had only remembered to pull them out. Live and learn. Photoman