Can a loose bolt get to the generator cooling fan?

Rickf1985 · April 21, 2015, 12:55 PM

I had my generator out the other day to replace the points and condenser. This is a 4BGEFA26100F. I had to take off the cover on top to access the top of the cylinders to blow them out, good thing too, mouse house there. In reassembly I lost the 5/16 flanged head bolt that holds the the cover and top of the side air shield. I searched everywhere and can not find it. It is too big to fit in the slots in the end of the generator. Blew everything out and no bolt. I figured I dropped it in the dirt and it will show up someday so I put it back in and fired it up and it runs great. There is a little "ting, ting" once in a while right in the area between the engine and the generator. I looking at all of the manuals I see that the starter ring is mounted on a flywheel there with blower fins on it. This is not the fan that is blowing air out the bottom at the other end of the engine from what I can see.

Is there any way a bolt could get into that area? I only see one spot that has an opening and that is where the starter goes in and I did not have the starter out. Is IS possible that this noise was there because the exhaust pipe was loose and rattling and now that is all buttoned up and it is not masking any noise. I just have this bad feeling. Guess that comes from a lifetime of building engines. I am thinking if I can get the starter out I might be able to fish around in there with a magnet and see if I come up with anything.

Rickf1985 · April 22, 2015, 05:50 PM

Any ideas? Anyone had one of these apart? I am thinking of buying a borescope and taking out the starter to see if I can see anything in there.

TerryH · April 22, 2015, 07:24 PM

Don't know if this will help, but I've had success with it over the years. Get a bolt the same size and duplicate everything you did to the point of dropping it. This time you know it's going to escape but you are ready and watching where it lands.
Good luck with whatever you do. Not a lot worse than losing a part in? an engine and not knowing where it ended up.

Rickf1985 · April 22, 2015, 07:48 PM

Terry, you must be an old mechanic. I have done that many times successfully in the past. I did just that already, I took the identical bolt out of the other side and dropped it several times in the dirt and pine needles to see exactly what I was looking for. NADA. I made damn sure to never loose sight of that one and I put it back in. I can use a standard 5/16 bolt with a washer and lock washer, it is just nicer to use the right part. And to be able to account for the one that is missing. I am going to pull the set back out this weekend and pull the starter out and fish in there with a magnet and hopefully pull out whatever is in there. I do not think it is the missing bolt but there is definitely something in there that has to come out. In the process of taking things apart I will be searching the engine carefully for the bolt.

DaveVA78Chieftain · April 22, 2015, 07:49 PM

From what I see in the parts book, the generator end housing bolts directly to the engine housing so there is no real way for the bolt to drop into that area. This side view picture with the covers off might give a better idea of where the bolt went.

Dave

Rickf1985 · April 22, 2015, 07:58 PM

Yea Dave, That is what I am thinking. I was looking for verification of my idea. I slid a piece of tubing in just to the right of the oil fill in that picture and under the generator bell and that is where I heard the noise the loudest. It was not all the time, just once in a while, like it would hit a blower tooth and bounce around and stop. Seeing that pic I did not realize the exhaust came out the top under the cover up there, no wonder my arm was roasting reaching over the engine. W%

TerryH · April 22, 2015, 08:03 PM

"Terry, you must be an old mechanic. I have done that many times successfully in the past. I did just that already, I took the identical bolt out of the other side and dropped it several times in the dirt and pine needles to see exactly what I was looking for. NADA. I made damn sure to never loose sight of that one and I put it back in."

Rick -
Old.....yes
Mechanic.....backyard only
Good luck

M & J · April 22, 2015, 08:16 PM

And Terry must be a Monte Python fan as well.

DaveVA78Chieftain · April 22, 2015, 08:32 PM

Hmm, looking at this some more, I see a way a bolt might get down in that area.
Air enters the unit at the generator end and pulled over the coils by the generator fan. It is then routed by the gen to engine adapter plate over the cylinder vanes. The engine flywheel draws that air off the cylinders and exhausts it out the bottom. Looks like there might be enough space between the cylinders and the gen to engine adapter plate for the bolt to drop through ending up in the area you hear the noise.
The condenser, connected to the coil, is laying on the top of gen to engine adapter plate in this picture:

TerryH · April 22, 2015, 11:28 PM

Quote from: oldrockandroller on April 22, 2015, 08:16 PM
And Terry must be a Monte Python fan as well.

Died and true. Best comedy ever.

Rickf1985 · April 23, 2015, 09:53 AM

Mark, you may have hit the nail on the head. The point set I got had the condenser for the internal mount and mine is as shown, external. So much for serial numbers. I soldered a wire to the condenser case and ran it to the shroud bolt. I had that bolt on the wire connector back there.

GONMAD · April 23, 2015, 03:31 PM

That condenser on the coil WILL stop your Generator from starting if it's no good. Not to be confused with the points condenser. I found this out after removing it from the system, naturally it was on the backside where it is nearly visible.
Back to your quandary with the screw down under, it might never cause more than an annoying clatter...but Anything coming into contact in a weak section could cause catastrophic damage & render it unusable costing more to replace a major part. It probably is advisable to disassemble it & remove the obstruction. Remember MURPHYS LAW! C YA! GONMAD

Rickf1985 · April 23, 2015, 03:43 PM

Gonmad, that is the points condenser. I agree, it is coming back out this weekend.

Rickf1985 · April 26, 2015, 12:09 PM

Well, I found the bolt. It fell out from between the engine pan and the mounting pan as the whole mess was trying to fall off of the jack. Dave, That hole does not go into the bell, it just goes down between the engine and the bell housing. There is no openinig into the bell housing at all. I put the bolt back where it belongs and mounted the set back in the coach. I am getting good at this, Out and back in an hour.