No power to chassis - Need wiring diagrams for 1989 Pace Arrow P30

Rickf1985 · August 22, 2015, 04:36 PM

Dave, this one is right up your ally. Hm? I jump the coach batteries on this thing I am getting ready to get towed and everything inside works, as a matter of fact it was ALL on. Can't imagine just how dead those batteries are. N:( The problem I am having is I cannot get power to the vehicle side of things. I had it for a bit when I put my hot jumper cable on the emergency start solenoid and as soon as I hit the key it went click and nothing since. That is a sure sign of a bad battery cable connection at one of the four ends but there are so damn many ends in there it would be nice to know where to look and if there are any cutouts I should be looking for. I have not been able to find ANY information on the Pace Arrow other than it is made by Fleetwood and is basically built the same exact way as the Winnebago. They even take credit for being the first to come up with the vacuum formed sides. Well someone is lying there, them or Winnebago but there was only one "first person" .

Anyway, I have all of the manuals for this thing, I found them and all of the service records for many years up to the last owner and I now know it has sat in this hole since the day after he bought it 7 years ago. The manuals tell me nothing about switching to emergency start and there are no switches. It says "automatic". I really want to get this thing running for at least a minute to get some tranny oil circulated before towing it.

DaveVA78Chieftain · August 22, 2015, 07:01 PM

Well first it's a P30 chassis so some of the stuff is basic.

The magnetic start switch (top left in drawing; on a bracket above the alternator) is used to ensure there is enough current supplied to the starter solenoid. Remember, this is a standard chevy chassis. You can jump the starter solenoid (on starter) to turn the engine over.

I think this is the correct diagram for a 1989. I think the cross connect solenoid (Auxiliary Start System) is under the front hood? I think Fleetwood did not start using the Battery Control Center (BCC) until 1993. I think the Fleetwood design automatically engages the relay when:
1. Starting battery is dead.
2. When engine is running to charge the house battery (no MOM switch)

Nice to know Fleetwood Parts site

Do you have a Battery Disconnect relay for the house battery? If so and it is OFF, the cross connect will not work

Rickf1985 · August 22, 2015, 07:33 PM

Dave, What you are showing is what I am seeing, the problem is that it is not just cranking though. I am not getting any power to the ignition or dash. I had it for a second but as soon as I hit the start it went "click". You know the sound, the one it makes when a battery cable arcs somewhere and loses what little connection it had. I sure hope it is not the one on the starter since I cannot get to that at this time. I also get no headlights so whatever the problem is it is not letting any current by. I will go after the grounds tomorrow. I don't think it is the battery ground though because all the batteries share the same ground and when I jumped the house batteries everything came on inside and I mean every light and pump so the ground must be good. I also cranked the generator and That would pop a dirty ground.

Rickf1985 · August 22, 2015, 07:46 PM

By the way Dave, there is a latching relay in the big electrical box under the hood but the screws were rusted so I could not get the cover off. I could peek in from the side where the standard automotive fuses are. There is not switch in the coach for turning off the power though like there is in my Chieftain.

DaveVA78Chieftain · August 22, 2015, 08:05 PM

All I can say is Fleetwood used various designs for battery setups. They have used the drawing I posted above, a Bidirectional relay Delay Controller (BIRD) relay controller and a Battery Control Center (BCC) over the years. Each setup is different. You will need to figure out which setup they used on yours.

DaveVA78Chieftain · August 22, 2015, 08:07 PM

Quote from: Rickf1985 on August 22, 2015, 07:46 PM
By the way Dave, there is a latching relay in the big electrical box under the hood but the screws were rusted so I could not get the cover off. I could peek in from the side where the standard automotive fuses are. There is not switch in the coach for turning off the power though like there is in my Chieftain.

Look above the door for a switch. Sounds like you may have a BCC

Rickf1985 · August 22, 2015, 08:09 PM

Wouldn't think to look there, I will check it out tomorrow.

DaveVA78Chieftain · August 22, 2015, 08:30 PM

Oh, Battery Disconnect relay uses a mechanical latch system so the relay does not have to be in a ON state all the time. A voltage pulse in one direction opens it. A voltage pulse of opposite polarity closes it. The mechanical latch keeps it in the ordered position. The main contacts inside of them are known trouble points (burnt contacts). You can jumper across the large posts to eliminate the the relay from the circuit.

DaveVA78Chieftain · August 22, 2015, 08:33 PM

You may have one of these Intellitec things

Be back a bit later. Going in the other room to watch the Bristol race

Rickf1985 · August 23, 2015, 07:41 AM

Thanks for all the info Dave, I don't think it is the Intellitec. From what I can see things look different in there and the emergency crossover is on the other side of the firewall by the heater. I knew about the latching relays.

DaveVA78Chieftain · August 23, 2015, 09:36 AM

YW. INformation for Fleetwood products are typically hard to come by unless it is a common problem area.

lemortede · August 23, 2015, 12:57 PM

My 88 would start intermittently/slow crank/ just click and kill my power when I first started working on it. I found that i had 2 issues but one was making things worse.
1) my chassis battery was not in the best condition. It was older and had sat for some time.
2) the chassis ground cable had some corrosion inside the sheath and it had rusted between the ground rail and the connection.

If I flipped the switch to dual so it could start off the coach batteries the engine would turn over and start with no issues every time.
What I ended up doing wad replacing the ground cable from the chassis battery to the frame/ground rail and grinding the rust off the rail before returning attaching it.
The chassis battery still needed to be replaced but now at least it starts.
Does you positive terminal on the chassis get warm when you try to start it and nothing happens? It sounds like a ground issue imo. Btw both my chassis and oach share the same ground rail. Go figure.

Rickf1985 · August 23, 2015, 02:46 PM

Dave, You are a genius! Two switches right over the side door in a compartment. One for coach power and one for chassis power.

It will start on ether but the lower emissions pump is frozen and I did not want to burn the belt so I did not keep trying. The fuel regulator is pissing gas so that is another issue but the good part of that is that it smells like good gas and not varnish which is what I was afraid I might find. The regulator on this one is right out in the open, I think Winnebago could have taken lessons on that and also the gas tank installation, this one fills from the rear so no matter what side of the pump you pull up on you can get it.
Here is the main panel under the hood, TWO latching relays?

And the crossover relay

And the batteries, the starting battery is just in there to get it going and is not the right one. All the grounds go to the same lead.

DaveVA78Chieftain · August 23, 2015, 06:08 PM

QuoteTWO latching relays?

Will take some wire tracing but I suspect one for house, one for chassis. Oh, switches over door. One for coach, one for chassis.

That electrical box appears to be a predecessor to the Intellitec or RV Custom Products BCCs fleetwood used for many years. There maybe some wiring diagrams for it squirreled around on the net someplace but so far I have not found them.

RANGERRICK · September 17, 2015, 11:08 AM

Make sure you check the braided ground cable going from the frame to the motor.It is located at the back side of the motor.When i worked at the dealer,we ran into bad connections at this location all the times.

Oz · September 27, 2015, 10:08 PM

The original topic was needing wiring diagrams, but there's a long discussion about all kinds of specific electrical things.

Rick, what is the actual problem which you should have put in the title in the first place?

I need to know so I can go back and change all the posts. N:(

Please remember to follow the message posting rules in the future. Our long time members need to set the example, not be the exception.

DaveVA78Chieftain · September 28, 2015, 07:15 PM

Except for operators manuals, Fleetwood is set up such that what information there is available can only be supplied by contacting them
Fleetwood contact