Battery Drained to "0" while driving Down the road

[The_Handier_Man1]

From: DampDude007  (Original Message)
Sent: 7/10/2006 7:17 AM

Well,I just got back from camping, no problems til I started back home,first the radio started flickering,then no turn signals,so I hit my batttery test button and the engine battery said low,so I checked it about an hour later it was on zero ,dead the winiie started sputtering and died, so I pulled over,jumped my deep cycle over to the engine battery it started right up and I got her home. I unjumped the battery and it just clicked. I put a charger on her for about 15 minutes she started right up. I had to get going so I left the charger on trickle and this morning it was fully charged and she started right up. I have had alternators go out on me before but not drained the battery,is it possible the alternator could drain her down to zero?? I have not had any charging problems up til now.I was going to pick one up before I went back out to her parking place. I have this year new batteries cables etc. Any thing else I should look for?? I need to get her fixed before Ohio for sure.
Thanks
Dude



From: ClydesdaleKevin
Sent: 7/10/2006 9:01 AM

Could be a lot of things, Dude....been there bro...lol.

Does your converter charge your batteries while you are camping?  Does it charge both the coach batteries AND your starting battery?  Check to make sure...something could be draining your starting battery while you are parked, and if its not charging while parked, it could drain right out.

If your rig runs well and is tuned right, it will start right up with a low battery charge...but if your battery is really low, and your alternator is getting old and tired, it could die and drain the rest of the way out while you are driving...remember, our alternators have to work EXTRA hard, harder than a car:  They have to charge the starting battery while you are driving, AND they have to charge the coach batteries while you are driving, AND they have to keep the engine running...lol.

Might be the alternator, and if it is, change out the voltage regulator at the same time.

Alternator still good?  Check all your wiring.  Check the way your coach and starting batteries are wired...there should be a continuous duty relay that separates your batteries while you are starting, but keeps the batteries connected when driving so they will both charge.  If its wired wrong, the alternator might only be charging your coach batteries.  If the relay is bad it shouldn't cause a starting problem (assuming it wired right), but it will keep the alternator from charging your coach batteries.

The most likely thing from your symptoms is that your converter doesn't charge your starting battery while you are sitting/camping.  An old Phillips converter like mine (71) isn't made to charge a battery.  Even with a newly rewired battery/charging system with new batteries, a new relay, and a new alternator and regulator, my rig's starting battery has a draw somewhere (maybe from the stereo, maybe from a short somewhere, but whatever it is, its a very slow draw, but its a draw)...and it will drain out the battery over the course of about a week.  I had to install and wire in a marine trickle charger that I leave on whenever I'm parked and connected to shore power.  The symptoms disappeared, and I haven't had a problem again with it...and I had the same symptoms you are describing.

Kev



From: ClydesdaleKevin
Sent: 7/10/2006 9:06 AM

Also, there is a whole thread about my own charging/starting battery woes, a couple of threads really, the first one about "voltage fluctuation when driving with lights on," (turned out I screwed into a marker light wire when I installed my awning, but it trouble shot my charging system while I was at it), and "the Ark goes to drydock", where Tom helped me with a lot of the wiring and helped me find the short, and maybe a couple of other threads.  There are also pics in the Ark album of the charger installed, etc.

Good luck bro, and let us know how it turns out!

Kev



From: ClydesdaleKevin
Sent: 7/10/2006 9:33 AM

Hey Dude!  I bumped three of my posts up to the top about my own charging problems, and they should be helpful...but there are a LOT of really good posts about the same problems you are having!  Scroll through them, bro...this must be a pretty common problem, because its a repeated topic over and over on the Electrical message board.

Good luck, and tell us what you find out!

Kev



From: Slantsixness
Sent: 7/10/2006 9:57 AM

Lovely 70's vinyl floor Kev.....

Mike,
The Chassis charging systems in Winnies is pretty simple. If there is a drain, find it. Pull fuses, isolate circuits and you will stumble onto the drain.

One thing that will drain the battery for sure is leaving the MOM switch in Dual when you're parked. The dual position is for use to charge the coach battery while travelling only (enigne on, driving and at above 1200rpm, otherwise it's a drain).

Kev is right too, some phillips converters charge the coach battery, some DO NOT. how do you tell? Well, one has 2 relays in the box and one only has one. The box, however, looks the same. 2 relays means you have the trickle charger. Not that that means it works after 30+ years! The old Philips Trickle chargers never did charge much, so a completely dead battery would probably take a week or more to re-charge.

Ok, but your issue though is with your Coach battery....

check the charging system (normal Dodge alternator and regulator)

Check the drain in the circuits.... an by the way....
If you have a jumper between BAT and AUX in your fuse box, there's your problem! A lot of people jumpered the Aux and Bat terminals because they thought it needed to be, because whatever they monkeyed with didn't work until they did. If you have this wire installed, the gauges may stay on even with the ignition off, and Viola, there's your drain!
Also, check to see if the ground strap from the frame to the engine is in place. If it's not, then put one on. This can cause a field fault in the alternator. It won't kill the alternator, but the alternator will never charge regardless of the regualtor telling it too.

Just a few hints... theres plenty more...

Tom



From: DampDude007
Sent: 7/10/2006 1:34 PM

Thanks,I will check all that stuff, I am pretty sure my 73 Phillips converter does not charge my battery,but as I was driving I was thinking the trickle charger may be the trick too. I will see if the alternator is charging and go from there, the dual battery switch does not work for sure so I am guessing the solenoid is not functioning either. It has been fine up until yesterday. I do have 3 grounds under the chassis that was the first thing I did when I got it last year. It was just kinda weird,no indications at all. BU I know when the battery sat for a few minutes it recharged itself so I know its not the battery.  There is no jumper in the fuse box,the PO pu in an all new underdash fuse set,it is kinda sweet,easy to trace and hook stuff up. But a new alternator would make me sleep better anyway along with regulator and solenoid.
Duder



From: DampDude007
Sent: 7/10/2006 2:12 PM

BTW ,I was calling around for an alternator, what amperage is being run on these with a 318? I see they have a 100 amper it was a little pricey,sometimes bigger is not always better.



From: OldEdBrady
Sent: 7/10/2006 6:41 PM

When your alternator goes, you are driving strictly on the battery.  Brakes lights, turn signals, coach lights, air conditioner (not the one on the roof, but the one in the panel), EVERYTHING is drawing on the battery.

Goes dead?  Yep; that'll do 'er!



From: Slantsixness
Sent: 7/11/2006 4:14 AM

Mike,

The 100 amp is an option, but for running standard chassis components, lights, engine, etc. the original cheap alternator is already 80 amp. 10 amps ain't worth a lot of extra money. Now if you're running a lot of car stereo stuff off the Chassis (which you shouldn't, run it off your coach electric...no alternator whine!) or go for the 100amp alternator.

Be sure when you get a replacement alternator that you get a "square backed" (the area around the diodes is squared off, not round) replacement, not the full round one. The round ones have diode problems.

Tom



From: Slantsixness
Sent: 7/11/2006 4:16 AM

yeah I can read.... 20 amps ain't worth a lot of extra money.... not 10...

I'm a little Dee-Dee-Dee this morning...



From: DampDude007
Sent: 7/11/2006 4:43 AM

Thanks brothers,I will pick me one of them there things today,I hate doing stuff like this before I take a road trip.Drives me nutso wondering if I fixed the problem or not.



From: DampDude007
Sent: 7/15/2006 12:41 PM

Well,The alternator was missing some diodes and was dead as a dead bum door nail. Installed new one and charged right back up. While I was gettin ready to take her for a spin my dad yealls at me as I was out the driveway and said I had no tail lights. So I better fix that.
1.Headlights work
2.Turn signals work
3.Brake Lights Work
4.All dash lights work
5. Blows Running light fuses
6.Pulled all running lights and tail lights
7.Still Blew fuses
8.LOST IN SPACE!!!
9.Short somewhere any suggestions,I am looking in the database.

Duder



From: ClydesdaleKevin
Sent: 7/16/2006 10:21 AM

If you are blowing fuses with your running lights, its definately a short, and not just a bad ground.  Make sure you didn't do what I did, screw into any wires!  If you are lucky, its just that one of the wires rubbed through its insulation, hopefully somewhere you can get to them!  You'll have to trace all your wires, and check the insulation.  Your marker light wires are also on the same circuit, or should be.  Hopefully its not one of these wires, since they run through the walls and under the skins!  Check each light where the wires come into them, and make sure a positive wire didn't slip out and touch a ground wire, ground itself to the aluminum skin.  Good luck!

Kev



From: DampDude007
Sent: 7/16/2006 11:34 AM

Yea, I am pretty sure I know what to do,I started looking for the short,it was 98 in the shade,after 4 hours I had to quit,plus my patience was running out quickly after changing the alternator,I thought I was done working on it for a while.I have done nothing as far as screwing things in and out of stuff to provoke a short,it was all working a month ago,that was the last time I was driving at niight.I don't know when I will have time to fix it this week.
dude



From: Slantsixness
Sent: 7/17/2006 4:09 AM

Mike,
You might check out Kev and My escapdes from last December to fix your lights.

On your Winnie, the upper front light wiring starts on the left (drivers side) but the wire comes from behind the drivers window and up into the roof. (should be a white wire)

On the rear, and since you have no tail lights, there is a problem with the brown wire.

Another hint:
Don't tear it all apart......!!!!

The frame rail at the transmission crossmember is where the harness goes to the rear. That part of the harness on mine was Frayed and Chafed, and yes: it would short out. Its right behind the trans cross memeber on e the left side under the Winnie. In a D19, this is 18" before the Proprtioning block, which is mounted directly behind the Battery box. so have a look around there first for a frayed harness. On a D20, the Prop valve is just inches from the crossmember.

Tom



From: DampDude007
Sent: 7/17/2006 4:49 AM

Thanks Tommy,
That is the kind of info I was looking for,it was rewired before by th PO so I stopped tracing his "wiring job" it was reds into yellows into greens,hopefully I can get back to it in the next few days.
dude



From: DampDude007
Sent: 8/6/2006 6:11 PM

Well ,I just got back from a 10 day motorcycle trip through  the smokey mountians on my Triumph what a blast, anyway I took up the offer from Dan2soon to have him help me with my light issue,after 3 hours of head scratching and wire jumping,we were gonna run some new wires,so I started putting things back together,then blam,the lights went out, it happened to be a rear running light,I put new ones on last year,it appears the screw was close to a wire and shorted out after a year of running fine,so that mystery is solved,I would like to thank Dan again for his help,it is nice for a few people to be looking at the same problem and wanting the same end result. By the way Dan has a kick bum shop too,and his Explorer is sweet,I don't remember ever seeing one of those before. Now if I could just keep it from dying on me when I stop,it almost seem like a vaccume leak,when i put on the brakes,it get all funky and dies,but starts right back up.
dude



From: Member_Administrator
Sent: 8/7/2006 5:34 AM

Glad to hear it was something simple!  Another great example of Classic Winnebago owners helping each other.

Happy camping!  - Sob