Dodge m500 distributor conversion??

[Kittykat0505]

Okay..I hope I'm posting this right. .this is my first time owning an rv and my first time posting..I figured why not start out asking the best right?  I have a ton of issues and questions but I read the rules so I'll post the other issues in the right  forum.  Heres my distributor issues. .purchased a 76 dodge apollo m500 with  a 440. When I got it.the guy fired it up..later when I came back to load it up and drive it off. .PROBLEMS!
He stole the batteries, took the rear drive shaft..left a mess. .so I've been trying to figure it out. .purchased 2 batteries. . (Still confused about coach wiring but that's another post). Make a long story short..I know too late.  After much carb adjusting. It fired up for a minute. .now no spark. .so finally to my point..I have figured out the guy had taken out the stock distributor and replaced it with an older points distributor..which has left a lot of wires not hooked up and it looks like the ignition module was in part bypassed..so this is my question. .is it possible for this rv to run properly with this distubutor and does anyone have a diagram on how to correctly wire it up to convert it to the points distributor instead of the electronic distributor which I believe was what was in it originally. I've had a few guys put on their capes and try to help but they just messed things up more and I got 3 different answers. .so this girl is asking the pros. .oh..maybe this will help. .my ignition module has 4 wires not 5. 3 of which are not hooked up to anything! !
Thanks in advance and I hope I've done this right

[DaveVA78Chieftain]

Ouch!  Well, first off welcome to our site.

is it possible for this rv to run properly with this distubutor?

Well for someone who knows what they are doing it could be made to run with it however, the original electronic ignition is setup is much better.
Chrysler Electronic Ignition System Description

Do yourself a favor and get the 3 volume Dodge Service Manual set from our site store.  Normally a 70's era RV Mfg built a 76 coach on the previous years chassis (75) so that set should be best for you.  Parts book goes up to 77.  That set covers both a points based and a electronic ignition based setup.

I have all the original Dodge ignition component P/N's posted at the bottom of this page.

[Rickf1985]

What Dave said BUT, If you find wires are cut and missing then you may want to just convert to a GM HEI style distributor. Performance Distributors Inc. Makes them for all motors and they only need one wire hookup to run. Not real cheap, around 300.00 if I remember correctly but depending on what kind of mess you have you could go way beyond that just trying to get it to fire.
Just another option to think about.

And welcome to the site and sorry to hear about all the problems. Why in the world would he take the driveshaft? Does he have another one of these?

[Kittykat0505]

Thanks guys for the response. .I've been doing ALOT of research and you both really know your stuff.  Thanks Dave for the great diagram..I've been studying it and referring bank to it for the past 4 days. .rick, I was hoping you'd reply so that I can ask you About a response I read from you to someone else with a no spark issue. .you said to replace the distubutor and forget about the ignition module and ballast..is that possible here?  The cut wires I've discovered are wires that were it looks like starting to take those components out of play..
If I'm not mistaken, and I think i read this from your posts Dave the ignition control module is what tells the distributor when to spark if using an electronic ignition. .but a points distributor that is built in right?  Because it was used before all these modules cane into play..so can I just get back to basics?  In other words,  let the points distributor do its job controlling the spark,  grab my power for the coil from either the ballast or the starting solenoid and get rid of the ignition control completely? ?..I would LOVE to put this thing back to original,  but as always money is an issue and after the surprise of a $310 driveshaft..I need to try and work with what I've got. .





And rick..guess the driveshaft was removed so he could tow it to where it sits now. .and then he brought it to the recycling yard. .nice guy. .

[Rickf1985]

Well, The solution I mentioned is all inclusive, plug it in and turn the key. The only wire you need is a wire from the key to tell it the ignition is on. BUT, That comes with the price I mentioned. The points will do basically the same thing but with several drawbacks. First off, you have no idea what the distributor came from so you do not know what the timing advance curve is set up for. Dave is good with Dodges and he may be able to help there. The other thing is the points themselves, they are very labor intensive. They need to be kept in tune which means you will need to keep adjusting them and be sure the condensor is good. This could be an issue because the point sets which used to be 5.00 are now substantially more than that. You will also have to keep the troublesome ballast resistor, (keep spares) and coil. With the HEI this is ALL eliminated. I am not trying to specifically talk you into the HEI but I want you to be fully aware of what you are getting into if you go back to technology that went out 45 years ago.

Let me add something here, IF you already have the points distributor in there and you already have the ballast resistor and coil then you can get it running. I would do that first to make sure it runs and drives before spending any big money on parts. All you need to get it running right now is a wire from the ballast resistor to the points. Ignition to coil to ballast resistor to points. There should be a tap on the starter relay to provide 12 volts directly to the points during cranking. If you do not have that a jumper wire will do the trick. You just want to be sure the thing runs.

[DaveVA78Chieftain]

Wiring of a points based distributor is fairly simple.
Ignition Sw - Run is the I1 Run signal for Electronic Ignition (Red Wire)
Ignition Sw - Start is the I2 Start signal for Electronic Ignition (Pink Wire)
Wire colors are identical for both versions.






A match book cover can be used in a pinch to set points however the correct setting is .014" to .019"
If you have access to a dwell meter (the best way to set points), that's 30 to 35 degrees

[Kittykat0505]

You guys are the best. .Dave thank you so much for that diagram. .EXACTLY  what I needed. .just to double check myself. .one side of the ballast should be 5.0 ohms  and the other should be. 0.5 ohms right? Since the points distributor is already in place I'm going to take your advice as well ric and get the thing running before putting that much cash into it. .but I am FOR SURE going to go with the HEI as soon as I can afford it..had it not been for the rear driveshaft..but thank you both for the priceless information. .I'm going to wire this thing up according to your diagram Dave in about an hour and then I'll be back to let you know how it went...thanks again.
Kathy

[Kittykat0505]

Sorry Dave quick question. .in your diagram..which side of the ballast do the wires go to? I thought the run and start goes to the 5.0 and the coil goes to the. 0.5? Thanks again

[DaveVA78Chieftain]

Actually you should be using either a Echlin IRC12 (1.4 ohm) or a Echlin IRC13 (1.82 ohm) ballast resistor when using points.  For testing, the 0.5 ohm side can be used to get the rig running.  I would not run it long on that ohm value though to insure you do not burn the points up.  It's a difference in design approach.

[Kittykat0505]

Actually you should be using either a Echlin IRC12 (1.4 ohm) or a Echlin IRC13 (1.82 ohm) ballast resistor when using points.

Duh!! I didn't even think of that. .of course if it is a different distubutor the values of the ballast won't be the same..   and I just checked the ohms on this ballast and the one side is reading 1.6..
I'm not sure if it is an echlin..but since it is in the middle of the values you gave me. .I'm running with it. .back to the doghouse to do the final wiring. .I'll let you know what happens. .thank you again Dave. . (Someone needs to bake this man a cake or pie or something )!!

[Kittykat0505]

  WE GOT SPARK!!  Is it strange to be so exited over that little flicker? Well i was. .you guys are the best. .I'm gonna put in the new plugs. .clean up this wire mess and see if she'll run. .I've got some great before shots that I'll post with the after shots when I'm done. .can't tell you how much I appreciate your help and knowledge. .I'll let you know when it's running. .then time for the coach wiring fiasco. .in the proper forum of course. .looking forward to it now that I know there's real help out there. .thanks again guys. .
Kathy

[DaveVA78Chieftain]

 

Just so you know, far as I know there is very little specific information available for the Apollo Motorhome so most non-chassis  issues will have to be discussed in general terms.  Not to worry though as like a brick house,  the systems across different motorhome Mfg's are all simular.

[Rickf1985]

I was just on the Performance Distributors website and I may have misled you on the price of the DUI distributor, The one for the 440 is almost $400.00! Sorry about that. The Chevy Big block is only $295.00 and that was what I based my statement on.

http://performancedistributors.com/product/dodge-big-block-dui-distributor/

[DaveVA78Chieftain]

While I do not know the quality of these HEI style 440 distributors, they should be a viable option for a low budget solution.
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=dodge+440+distributor&_sop=15&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xdodge+440+electronic+distributor.TRS1&_nkw=dodge+440+electronic+distributor&_sacat=0

Cardone Stock distributor - Base P/N 3896  (Reman: 30-3896; New 84-3896)
EBAY

Autozone Reman 30-3896

Advance Auto Reman 30-3896

NAPA Reman 30-3896

[Wildman5977]

One other thing to look at is the wiring harness to the ballast resistor, ignition module, coil, I have had my 77 Executive Elegante II for four years now, it has had this annoying problem of not starting when warm, and intermittent engine stalling, and rough running.

I finally found the issue after numerous hours with a multi-meter, I was removing the control plate and mounting the modules for easier access when I was moving the harness around with the key in the run position I heard one of the battery Isolation solenoids clicking on and off as i moved the harness.

There is a soldered connection for the ignition run and several other points, (6 wires) that were under friction tape, under the electrical tape wrap, this connection had split, giving intermittent voltage to the ignition module, coil, and ballast resistor, this is close to the branch off that goes to the ignition module, and fluctuating charging performance.

[Kittykat0505]

Thanks wildman. .that was one of my first problems ..that mess of wires..I've since cleaned it up..and thanks to these guys here. I'm driving her around. .I've got to say dave. .you were right on about points needing to be constantly adjusted and messed with. I was (and still am) having a major issue with the charging system. .and in addition to needing a jump every time I shut her off..I was getting below operating volts at the coil one day which left me stranded. .so we had to run battery voltage straight to the distributor. .yeah all bad..just to get it to a legal parking location. .like 2 blocks. Messed the points up big time. .BUT...according to Amazon shipping.  I will have the new HEI  ONE WIRE  electronic distributor on Thursday. .only cost me 89.99 plus shipping. .thanks for that idea rick.  No more ballast., vr, coil, ignition module. !! Can't wait. .am hoping removal of all those parts and all those wires will somehow help my charging issue. .
Thanks again for your invaluable knowledge and information. .

[budder]

Hi buddy glad you are getting things  sorted. I  had a load of problems with mine. You will have to let us know what the hei system you bought is like as im after a spare just in case my dodge gives up the ghost when we are out camping.
Thanks Craig