Original roof material 88 Itasca Suncruiser.

CapnDirk · September 18, 2016, 03:53 PM

I have structural problems with the back one third of the coach roof. Brochure indicates they had a skeletal metal structure in walls and roof. What I find odd is that the rear AC is sagging, and would think that the front and rear would have been supported considering the weight. I know there is foam between rafters, and lauan for the ceiling, but what was from there up? Were there wood rafters between the metal ones and the one behind the AC has failed? What was the roof skin in that time (glass, aluminum, rubber)? and can I put down a wood sheet and EPDM if I'm going to re-skin it after rafter repair?

Thanks

EldoradoBill · September 18, 2016, 07:58 PM

Fairly certain the top is supposed to be sheet aluminum. You're going to be removing the ac unit anyway (not a particularly difficult job, though I'd be careful walking a sagging roof) then you'll get a good view of the cross-section. Probably going to find a long-term leak around the ac caused some rot....

Bill

CapnDirk · September 18, 2016, 11:56 PM

Thanks. I would assume that there had to be some rear rafter to support the AC that is gone, was toying with sheeting the roof and going rubber. Something had to have failed to allow the AC to sag, and doubtful that would have been metal. Was hoping that it was not Aluminum as that would allow repair on the rear part structure and then sheet it only and re-rubber whole roof.

Worse ceiling rot was in right rear corner, but that still could have been the AC, as the coach could have just been sloped to the right a bit.

Not worried about the structural part, been there on a fifth wheel, just trying to decide what to top it with this time around, and what was there originally would be part of that decision.

Thank you.

Rickf1985 · September 19, 2016, 12:08 PM

These do have a metal framework but it is not as extensive as a house. There may be one crossmember near the air conditioner but that will be it and those frame members are this steel so if there was a lot of moisture it could have given way from the weight of the AC and people walking on the roof. The roof is usually thin aluminum sheet over lauan over high density foam board over Lauan and the ceiling material. Walls are the same thing except the outer wall is either aluminum or a very thin fiberglass over the lauan.

CapnDirk · September 19, 2016, 08:15 PM

Rick, thanks that was what I was looking for.

From what I can see in the sales brochure of the steel in the rear AC area, there may be a steal beam in front of it but not the back hence my question as to if they did a combination steel and wood truss. But I'll know when I open it up.

If that's the case, I don't see any reason that I could not remove all the aluminum, replace structural elements (foam if needed) and the lauan at the back i/3 then go over the whole thing with a conventional material?

Rickf1985 · September 19, 2016, 09:30 PM

If you are planning on doing the whole roof then that would be the correct way to do it. Just be sure to replace the insulation. I have a soft area on mine but it feels like it is just the lauan under the aluminum. I do have a sag just behind the front AC unit. I think a lot of this is from people walking on the roof and it just is not made for that.

CapnDirk · September 19, 2016, 11:15 PM

Agreed, especially if it was barely made to hold up an AC unit. I always stay to the outside edge unless I have to go inboard for something.

Rickf1985 · September 20, 2016, 09:23 AM

If you look at the sales brochures you can see that those metal crossbeams are few and far between. And on mine, since it is delaminated from roof leaks, I can see the outline of a lot of the side framing and there is no rhyme or reason to it. I went over it with a stud finder and they are in all kinds of odd places. You can trow carpentry standards out the window on these things.

87Itasca · September 20, 2016, 10:59 AM

Mine seems to hold up fairly well to me (350 lbs) walking on the roof, only one or two sections where there is a touch of give.

Thankfully, now that my vents are installed, A/C's are operational, and my leaks are fixed, it will get a bit of a reprieve for a while.

CapnDirk · September 20, 2016, 11:56 AM

Rick: I recognized that the first time I looked at the brochure, "what logic were they using for the spacing on these?" The roof. And did it apply to mine as I did not see anything that would be supporting the back of the rear AC. That's part of why why I was asking. There seems to be more structure in the roof in the kitchen/dinning area then elsewhere, as well as a rib in front and back of front AC but not the rear.

Itasca: Glad you got ahead of it, my right rear area is pretty bad, and the rear of the rear AC sagging. I believe this is due to the weight of the AC, and not someone stepping in that place.

From the street, you can see the back of the ac unit is down about 3-4 degrees.

Rickf1985 · September 20, 2016, 12:57 PM

I don't have a rear A/C yet, it is wired for it but it was an option that the original buyer did not get. Why I do not know because those jalousy windows do NOTHING for airflow. It gets super hot in the rear bedroom and the cool air from the front just does not go back there. I have a Pace Arrow I bought for parts and the A/C units are coming off of it and one is going on the back. My front unit is sagging in the back though just as you describe.

87Itasca · September 20, 2016, 02:00 PM

That's rough. I know what you mean about it not crossing over. Before I got my genset running and was just able to use one or the other, the furthest the air would go back was the kitchen divider door, and it was a similar story from the bedroom. They just wouldn't go any further than that point. Much, much nicer to be able to run both when it's warm.

Froggy1936 · September 20, 2016, 02:18 PM

The braceing in the roofs was a result of Federal regulations for support over the driver passenger In case of rollover It has nothing to do with basic roof strength, The policy of build is as light as possible still takes presidence ! Frank

Rickf1985 · September 20, 2016, 03:07 PM

I just looked at the sales brochure for the 89 Chieftain and the beams on the roof are double at the A/C units. One in front and one in back of the unit. Now if they have rusted..........................

CapnDirk · September 20, 2016, 11:32 PM

Interesting Rick. My brochure on the Suncruiser shows the two front and rear of the forward AC, but just the forward one for the rear AC.
I wonder if that was the standard build, and the rear one was added if a rear AC unit was speck for that build. Does make sense now that I think of it

cook elandan · September 21, 2016, 06:48 AM

I think that depending on the length the coach would have the double supports-if you want to call it support- for the rear since the second ac was an option. they started in late 80's with putting in one support and then adding the second because more people were adding the option. As to adding the support later when they ordered the AC you could not install the support because the lauan structure they just added the unit. But now with the supports that we do have are weak, even though they are square tubing, from all the bouncing weakens them and they lose their small arch that they had. Also in the lauan structure where there are cabinets there are flat metal strips that they attach to.
here is a pic of a 37' elandan from another that is doing a complete off frame restore. you can see where the supports are. So good thing there are walls in there or we all would be falling through the roof.

Rickf1985 · September 21, 2016, 10:32 AM

You are kidding about the restore on that right?

CapnDirk · September 21, 2016, 01:46 PM

You have to admire the determination of a person that would undertake a restore job like that.

You can see that there was front and rear support by the spacing of the tube for AC

cook elandan · September 21, 2016, 05:20 PM

No kidding, very complete total restore. He has taken the roof off the two sides off cab off rear cap floor off the frame, he sent the frame out for sand blasting and repaint. Recoating the rims. So if you wanted to see what is on the in side , you can see it with his.

Rickf1985 · September 21, 2016, 05:48 PM

I would love to have seen this from the beginning! By the time he is done he will have more money in it than a new one would cost, and I am talking a NEW one now!!!

cook elandan · September 21, 2016, 06:25 PM

He is still working on it, it is on another forum if I am allowed to post the name here. Let me know.

Rickf1985 · September 21, 2016, 06:42 PM

Not my call. Can you PM it to me? I think I belong to every RV forum out there. Haven't been to most in a long time since they don't talk antiques.

Found it. WOW!

CapnDirk · September 21, 2016, 11:07 PM

Can you two share? Would like to make myself feel better about how much work I'm putting into mine and see his project.

On the up side, after 3 weeks of work on the fuel system I turned the key yesterday to hear it roar. First time since bringing it home 5 weeks ago.

Thanks

legomybago · September 22, 2016, 02:24 PM

Quote from: Rickf1985 on September 21, 2016, 06:42 PM
Not my call. Can you PM it to me? I think I belong to every RV forum out there. Haven't been to most in a long time since they don't talk antiques.

Found it. WOW!

I want to see it!