Edelbrock 1411 Installed on the Chevy 454 P30 chassis

[ClydesdaleKevin]

LOL Dan!  Looks just like the chrome Edelbrock filter assembly I bought, instead of saying Edelbrock, it says 454.  Nice though.  Paid 29.00 bucks for the Edelbrock filter assembly, complete with filter, from Summit Racing.  So, if no one else bid on it at all, it would cost about the same with shipping as the brand new Edelbrock assembly did.


Kev

[ClydesdaleKevin]

Okay...status report.  I adjusted the idle mixture screws at sea level...in Hammond, LA not far from New Orleans.   Gas mileage was great at sea level...but then we headed west...and kept climbing and climbing and climbing!

We are right now overnighting it at a Flying J in Lordsburg, New Mexico.  We have pretty much reached the peak of our climbing, although its going to be up and down all the way to Tombstone, about 130 miles from here.  Gas mileage going up up up hasn't been attrocious...averaging about 6.1 mpg doing 55, even opening the secondaries on the big hills to keep that speed or slightly less.  Only had to drop it into 2nd gear once on a very long and steep climb, and never dropped below 45 mph.

The drop in fuel economy is expected, both with the extreme amount of climbing, and the much thinner air at this altitude...we are sitting at around 4500 feet above sea level, and will stay between that and around 1700 feet for the rest of our time in Arizona.

But what I didn't expect was the BIG drop in idle speed!  It dropped so low at this altitude that it wanted to stall out...less than 400 rpm and stumbling!  I ruled out the obvious...a vacuum leak...by spraying around the carburetor base and EGR block off plate with carb cleaner...no change in idle speed, so no leaks...SWEET!

Must be the mixture, which I set to the very lean side of things at sea level.  I backed the screws out 1/2 turn, and the idle rose up.  I set the idle speed to 700, and then screwed the screws in, one at a time, until the idle dropped, then backed them out 1/2 turn.  Still set to the lean side, but to the new altitude.  I readjusted the idle one last time...it dropped about 20 rpm when I set the mixture screws, then revved up the engine.  Immediate drop back to a steady 700 rpm.  Good deal!  So yep...there is a pretty big difference in the air density up here at 4500 feet over sea level!  An adjustment had to be made accordingly.  So if I'm understanding all this correctly, as the air gets thinner, you need to richen up the mixture a bit to compensate for the less dense atmosphere and less oxygen.  I could have that wrong and backwards, but readjusting the screws did the trick.

Gotta love the simplicity of the Edelbrock!

Kev

[HandyDan]

Kevin, in the event you should want to add a different air cleaner, I happened to find this on another forum.  Apparently, he used aluminum flashing around the original air cleaner to block it off so air would only come from the cone.  I just happened on the pictures and thought of you.  It was installed on an Airstream.

[ClydesdaleKevin]

Nice!  Every little bit helps on the long haul.


Kev

[circleD]

After looking at Kevs pics for the carb swap I decided to do the same on my rig with more researching and eventually getting an old hot rodder to help out when the hard part was done. Here are a few things I learned and dealt with that wasn't in Kevs pics because our motors are a little different even though the age of them are not far apart.
The pics showed an ELECTRIC CHOKE AND I HAD A THERMAL CONTROLLED CHOKE which meant I had two tubes coming out of the manifold on the passenger side of the quadrajet going to the choke and the rear of the carb. The hard metal lines can be pulled out of the metal plate that is held in place by 2 bolts. There's nothing underneath this plate but a void that builds up heat from the manifold for operations. You can purchase a block off plate to cover this but I choose to just pull the lines out and leave the plate.


The throttle bracket on the quadrajet is held on by the 2 REAR mounting bolts for the carb and will come off with the throttle and kick down ( on mine) cable still attached and you can cut this to fit the Edelbrock 1411. I took a cut off wheel and made my cut then just barely ground down the part that was closest to the Edelbrock carb and left the pin in there beside the bolt hole. In the pic you can see the red markings that I cut and slightly ground down to make this work. The cables will NOT ATTACH TO THE EDELBROCK (mine didn't) without the kick down bracket bolted to the throttle linkage from the quadrajet. Just unbolt the old one and put it on the 1411 but you still need to get a pin to hook the throttle cable too on the carb ( mine didn't have the ball and socket type just a slide over ) I'll get the pic and # soon. In the pic the green circle shows the bolt to remove and the RED shows the bracket.


On the rear of the Edelbrock I put a plug in because I have Hydro Boost brakes and don't need that hole PLUS the adapter has a threaded hole in the rear that HAS to be plugged. Take the plug out of the rear of the quadrajet and clean it up then put some Teflon tape on it and put it in there.
Like I said earlier, even though 454 motors are basically the same, there are some differences you don't realize until you get down in there. I NOW HAVE ELECTRIC CHOKE    and less vac lines to deal with. The vac lines are another issue put can be helped with. Just take your time and CLEAN the motor and parts while you have the stuff taken apart for future maintenance issues.

[Stripe]

I have the thermal choke as well, patched a small hole in it now it works.

I would not be surprised if Kev had one and replaced it with an electric.  I want to say he posted as much, but I dun remember..

[ClydesdaleKevin]

Nope.  My original Rochester carb had an electric choke from the factory...which for some reason stopped working and I couldn't get it to work even by replacing it.  So I ran a manual choke for a while until I installed the 1411.  Sure made wiring the choke on the 1411 a lot easier...lol!

And the bracket on mine wouldn't work at ALL with the Edlebrock, so I had to buy a universal bracket and modify it.

Kev

[ClydesdaleKevin]

As you can see in this picture, had I used the original bracket, even modified, my throttle cable bottomed out and wouldn't pull the linkage far enough.  So I used the universal bracket, which set it back far enough to operate properly.  I eliminated the cruise control altogether on ours, since we never used it...and it was leaking vacuum anyway.

Kev

[circleD]

That's why I wanted to put my pics on here with yours for references. After reading your post and pics I felt confident until I got to work on mine and noticed some differences  D:oH!  I hope these various options help people.

[GONMAD]

Hello,  Very nice job on the changeover. Now try installing the CARB ENHANCER as I showed on my pics section & FEEL the difference. It's easy to do & the only cost is an ice maker kit from any appliance store. Be sure to let the bowls breathe & a 1/4 to 1/3 turn out should suffice. The results are rewarding & your engine will respond better. Good luck on your trip! GONMAD

[circleD]

chr1000, If you look at the brake master cylinder through the DS fender well and see that there's no brake booster then you have Hydro Boost. Hydro Boost brakes go from the master cylinder forward to a "thing with a blue cylinder" that has hydraulic lines coming from the power steering pump. It gets it's power/pressure from the power steering. YOU MIGHT WANT TO STUDY UP ON THAT TYPE OF SYSTEM  D:oH! . I did a post on it and Dave did a more detailed one also.
This is just how to remove the DS fender well to work on things. You'll see the Hydro Boost system.
http://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php/topic,9120.msg46541.html#msg46541
This topic needs to be discussed on a post about Hydro Boost systems before we get in trouble  W%

[GONMAD]

Good install! I'm glad everything went well but there's one thing I'm curious about. Why did you use the 1" adapter when the carb should have supplied a steel plate to install between the carb & manifold. I've had these plates supplied with a number of carbs & it's there to stop a vacuum leak otherwise present without it's use. Did one not come with the carb when unpacked? The main reason I asked is some doghouses do not have the clearance for a 1" spacer without coming into contact with it. Was it the particular manifold design or personal preference. As far as tha Demon carbs, they work very reliably & my only regret was not getting the 750 CFM instead of the 625. Now if you feel inspired try installing the 'ENHANCER' on it & notice the difference. Good job on the throttle cable bracket, They're a pain for sure. GONMAD

[MotorPro]

The flat plates only work on aftermarket manifolds that have both bolt patterns. The stock quadrajet intake does not have the bolt pattern for an edelbrock or Holley

[GONMAD]

Yes & I forgot that the primaries hit the confines of the stock manifold thus the need for the adapter. That adapter is THE one to use, it guides the intake flow outward & doesn't have any sharp manifold flange to impede flow. I must be slipping as I used to install these a lot when the sailors would come on shore leave. the first thing they would do is to buy a local muscle car & come to our speed shop& have Holleys installed only back then they were only open spacers which killed most of anything the Holley did for the engine. Of course this was in the 80's in Norfolk Va. (yes I'm a Navy officers brat). Thanks for the memories Motorpro!

[tmsnyder]

I'm removing a Edelbrock installed by previous owner directly onto Rochester Qjet manifold.  No adapter plate used, he must not have read the directions.

[Rickf1985]

Are you sure it is a 1411 and not an Edelbrock Quadrajet? The 1411 bolt pattern is different from the quadrajet plus the secondary holes would not seal on the square bore of the Edelbrock without some sort of adapter.

[tmsnyder]

Yes I'm sure.  Mine was originally a Quadrajet engine, factory manifold.  But it had a new Edelbrock 1406 bolted on it, the number is stamped on the base and I found the receipt when cleaning out the rv, 7/2015 purchase.  Definitely a 1406.  Ran great, got great gas mileage, I was getting around 8mpg.  But it's only 600 cfm, you recommended going bigger.  I took your advise and I have a new 1411 on the way.  It was $330 on amazon.


I also got the fuel line and filter kit 8134 that brings the line down with a banjo fitting and straight forward on the engine towards where the old fuel line was hacked off. http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive/mc/carburetors/access-fuel.shtml



After reading this post and looking around I find that the Performer carburetors will bolt on to the Q'jet manifold and work, but won't work as well, Edelbrock instructions say it requires the 2696 or 2697 adapter kit.   To me, it looked like the difference between the two kits was a pair of 3/8 compression to 3/8 hose barb fittings, and $40 so I went with the $20 2696 kit.

[Rickf1985]

Something else to consider having on hand is the 1489 calibration kit. With it you can fine tune the carb over time to match your driving style and the vehicle. They are usually pretty good right out of the box but with this kit you can make minor to major changes as needed. And even the biggest change that involves taking the lid off is only a 15 minute job. Most changes it takes longer to take the air cleaner off and on.

http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive/mc/carburetors/access-calibration.shtml

[tmsnyder]

Wow, really disappointed with the Edelbrock 2696 adapter plate kit which arrived yesterday.  The kit's round head flat/phillips/square drive machine screws for bolting down the plate were really poorly made. I had to clean up the threads with a die in order to get them to thread without binding in the manifold.  Even then, the heads were so big and eccentric that they bind on the recessed openings as they are screwed in.  And there's no way to get any torque on them with a screwdriver.  In a nutshell, unacceptable.


I'm swapping them out with 5/16-18 thread socket head cap screws so I can actually torque them in properly with an Allen drive. 


Anyone planning to do this project should consider the same upgrade. 


Or pick up 5/16-18 studs to sandwich the adapter between the manifold and carb and skip the recessed bolts altogether. 

[Rickf1985]

Don't try to bolt the adapter sandwich style, that is asking too much of the carburetor body and you may not get a good seal between the adapter and the manifold. And do not overtighten those allen head bolts, it is very easy to do and what will happen is it will bow the adapter up between the corners and crest a leak.

[tmsnyder]

Thanks for the advise Rick, no offense intended but I did end up sandwiching the adapter using 2" grade 8 bolts.  (Actually I didn't even see your post until just now.)


The biggest reason for me was by sandwiching I was able to use the original throttle cable bracket.  It didn't have to be cut it off short and hung (swiveled? Hm? ) off a single bolt shaft as in the photos above by the OP. As shown in those photos, I was concerned that the cable bracket would just rotate around that mounting bolt as soon as I put my foot into the throttle pedal.  Especially considering the torque is only supposed to be 12 ft-lb on that bolt.



The bolts I used are coarse 5/16-18 thread.  Would have much rather used 2-1/2" studs but they were not in stock, would have made assembly even easier b/c each piece and gasket could have been dropped into place in turn.  It would have been the same torque on the adapter plate bolts, had I used them, as on the carburetor base,  12 ft-lb, or in other words just past snug    And b/c I used coarse thread bolts to attach instead of the fine thread nuts which came with the kit, there would have actually been more force on the carburetor base plate with NF thread.


By sandwiching there's going to be zero bending force on the adapter plate and less chance of a leak this way.  It's a minor issue since the plate is almost 1" thick aluminum, but by sandwiching it's a zero issue now.


AutoZone has a nice looking kit from another manufacturer for $25, next time I would have checked that one out at least.  It has two inserts for the adapter depending on whether the intake manifold is open in the middle, or is divided into a right and left side with a partition down the middle.  The Edelbrock one is divided only arrangement, solid aluminum.  They do have one that is wide open in the middle, but instructions say 'use #2696' with no mention of open vs divided manifold.  The one from AutoZone might be a better adapter, might not be, but would be worth checking out if someone is doing this swap.


It did fire right up after installation, after cranking for 5-10 seconds to fill the fuel bowl with gas.  Once running, it wouldn't drop out of high speed idle, and the choke didn't open as it came out of the box.   I had to loosen the three torx screws on the choke pod and rotate it significantly CCW until (when cold again) the choke flap was just barely moving towards open.  This video was very helpful:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gviih8tqKxc


Also had to set the idle and air mixture screws.


Looking through my phone, apparently I didn't stop to take pictures.  Maybe I'll pull off the air cleaner and snap a few before putting the doghouse back on. 


It will be interesting to see how this 750cfm carb stacks up to the 600cfm carb in terms of drive-ability, performance and mpg. I certainly was not unhappy with the 600cfm Edelbrock 1406 carb but we're headed to Yellowstone this summer and I didn't want to be under-carbureted for some of the grades we'll be getting into.

[Oz]

I had the 750.  I could climb hills like never before, passing diesel pushers!  MPG...  :)rotflmao

[tmsnyder]

Yes, it's night and day difference on the hills, it actually accelerates up them if needed. 


I got 7.3 mpg driving down and back through the Pocono Mountains a couple weekends ago from Buffalo, NY, so not too bad on gas really.