Engine Cranks, a Little, then dies. Definitely electrical, but what?

[Arberg0]

From: The_Pharaoh_Rulz (Original Message) Sent: 11/30/2005 5:14 PM
Strange symptoms here.

440-3, 74 Indian... with starting problems... hmmmm could there be a Winnebago Indian flu going around?  (built and data plate is (11)'73, but 74 model RM350)

I replaced the battery terminals a couple weeks ago.  After doing so, I cranked the engine.  It was fine for the first 3 seconds.... then it slowed and then stopped, the starter relay (?) kept clicking.  I backed-off the key and tried again.  It barely turned over once, clicked again.  Next time, just one click.  Next try... nothing.  Absolutely nothing.  I checked the battery.  Voltage ok.  I put a portable jump starter on it... a couple of cranks, and then nothing after that.  I hooked-up a shore power charger/jump booster.  The green light showing full charge came on.  When I changed to boost and tried to start it, nothing.  When I would back off the key and try again, sometimes it might click once, other times, nothing at all.  The dash idiot lights came on once when it clicked once, but not when I got nothing. 

I got a new battery today because the other one was at least 4 years old, maybe more.  Exactly the same thing happened.  I bench tested the old battery and it was ok.  I changed the balast resistor, no difference.  I have a spare, used ignition module but haven't tried it yet.  The starter is a new, not re-built, heavy duty one from NAPA... a year and-a-half old, no signs of problems with it prior to this.  The alternator is a heavy duty installed by the PO a little over 2 years ago... no prior signs of problems with that either.

Until I changed the cable ends, it was a strong starting system.  I did clean the battery cable ends, but when I went to undo the chassis ground wire bolt, it felt as if it might snap if I gave it more pressure, so did like the Beatles and "Let it be". 

Should I follow the manual troubleshooting guide, or do these symptoms indicate a specific place to start looking.

- Sob
 



From: The_Pharaoh_Rulz Sent: 11/30/2005 5:17 PM
Forgot... no headlights or dash power of any kind either.  - Sob


   

From: trapshooter-bt99 Sent: 11/30/2005 6:26 PM
hellow sob
              sounds like bad ground-take jumper cables,run one to neg batt to any ground on motor,altenator bracket works ,try starting it should work iff batt is foll charge if not let me know anmd ill tell you how to jump relay ,then well diagnose over phone-          see ya gb bob



 

From: hudsonmand Sent: 11/30/2005 6:44 PM
you have a cable corrosion or not good connection problem have someone try
to start while you look and see if sparks fly somewhere or cable gets hot
while trying to crank check all connections at dual battery solinoid etc
wiggle cables while other person is trying to start should be able to find
problem take care sam


 

From: The_Pharaoh_Rulz_ Sent: 11/30/2005 9:34 PM
I'll try those things, guys.  I really think I may have damaged the battery neg ground post on the chassis when I went to try to clean the connections to it.  I could feel it turning just a little before I could tell if I went any further, it would snap.  And, it wasn;t the nut that I felt turning, it was the threaded post!  I may have cracked it enough to blow the ground connection.  I'll definitely change that ground location and clean the cable ends first and see it that was the problem.  If not, I'll continue with your troubleshooting methods and give you a call, Bob.

- Sob
 
   

From: The_Pharaoh_Rulz_ Sent: 12/1/2005 1:11 PM
Ok, here's what happened today,

I took jumper cables and ran them from the neg terminal to the front shock frame mount.  The engine will crank now, although slowly... about 1/2 as fast as normal.  (I thought I ran the battery down trying, so I put it on the charger.  It was at full charge in less than 5 minutes).  But, the good thing is, it cranked each time I tried.

If this improvement is and indication, I think I did mess-up the chassis neg battery cable connection when I went to loosen the nut to clean the cable ends.  I didn't get the nut off because I felt the threaded mounting stud turning instead and I didn't want to snap it off.

The next step is to make a new neg chassis connection and clean the wire ends to it.  We'll see if that cures it.

One thing though, I cranked the engine with the cables connected to the frame for about 10 seconds.  When I went to remove the jumper cable, it was hot... really hot!  Bad sign?

I also think it would be wise to replace the primary cables since I noticed a build-up on the wires when I put the new ends on.  However, the engine cranked strong before I did that.

- Sob




From: The_Pharaoh_Rulz_ Sent: 12/1/2005 3:44 PM
Here's the deal,

I went to take the original ground nut off.  As I suspected, the bolt snapped.  When I looked at the engine ground cable end, it was so rusty, I have no idea how it lasted this long!  There was absolutely no metal showing.  I cleaned both ground wire ends.

I made a new ground connection, connected the wires and battery.  I got in the rig and turned the key... click.. and nothing!  Well, either my ground was still bad, or the cable was bad.   

I started by switching the cables. 

The house battery cable had been replaced with one at some time, and judging by how good condition the copper end was in, it couldn't have been too long ago.

The battery cable was the original one... steel eye connector.  The casing was very stiff and cracked in a few places.  I had already taped over the cracks. 

I put the newer cable on and turned the key.... vrooooom!  The sweetest sound on Winnebago earth!

As has been my luck so far with the "Pharaoh's Chariot", all the problems have been easy fixes... I certainly hope it continues.

Thank you so much for your guidance!

- BackintheSaddleSob 


   

From: mightybooboo Sent: 12/2/2005 7:52 PM
Shame shame on you.You should know by now,if its electrical and can replaced,you probably need to do so.I was going with bad cables all the way.Glad you got it fixed.
Take care,

BooBoo