Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion

[CapnDirk]

Sucks that you have to re-do the pics, but your efforts are greatly appreciated, and the conversion one of the best and most informing here.


Greatly appreciated!   

[Wantawinnie]

Weighed the old girl yesterday after our Labor Day camping trip. 13,600lbs. with empty holding tanks, nearly full freshwater tank. Diesel tank at a little more than half(guessing as gauge quit working). It was loaded up to travel with family on board. She's pretty big for a eyebrow Winnie! Lol

[srosa707]

@Wantawinnie thanks for the update!  Sounds like you are really enjoying the rig at this point.  We just got back from about a 750 mile trip in California and all I could think about was the engine swap.  Lots of miles at 55 wishing I had more power for the hills and speed on the flatland.  I keep going back and forth between the diesel and the 440 and I just cant seem to make up my mind.  Why did you opt for the diesel?  Can you tell that much difference  between the Cummins and the 440?


Also, thanks so much for updating the pictures.  I will be following closely.

[Wantawinnie]

It's hard and a little unfair of me to compare the Cummins and 440 it replaced. The Cummins has a 4 speed overdrive and a gear vendor on top of that. It has twice the gears to chose from as the old 440. 3000rpm or more was where the 440 ran with the 3 speed transmission. Over the 500 miles of highway driving to bring the Winnie home the 440 got around 5-6mpg. The Cummins gets twice that in worse conditions.

Where the Cummins and transmission combo I installed really shines is rumbling down the road at 1800 rpm and taking gradual hills with very little extra throttle. I can travel at 55-60 in overdrive without issue, it's in it's element. 70mph on the open interstate is also not a problem in overdrive or double overdrive. It again just rolls down the road.

Contrary to what some may think, the old 12 valve is not the end all for power. You are not going to be staying with new diesel trucks pulling trailers through the mountains. I've got some hills that bring it down to around 50mph before topping the grade but that is in high gear with the gear vendor overdrive engaged. Pulling into straight drive maxes out at 45 to 50 so either way your at 50 mph at the top. I have little doubt it will take almost any hill I've ever encountered, including going from Cody to Yellowstone or through the Smokey's at 45mph or more. It will be to the floor though.

I could add more fuel but then run into high exhaust gas temps and risk hurting the engine or damaging the transmission. Not worth it in a 13k pound rig.

[Rickf1985]

Has anyone thought about running a 24 valve? All of the electronics are packaged with the engine so if you get a donor wrecked truck you have everything you need.

[Wantawinnie]

I believe it would have to be the 5.9 common rail version from 2003-2007 to have the electronics engine mounted. The 98-2002 24 valve is not a very popular swap for that reason. Plus, they are louder than any other version including the 12 valve in my opinion. There is a painless wiring harness available for the common rail from what I remember.

[Rickf1985]

The ECM is mounted right on the side of the engine on my 98.5 24 valve. Oh, it is noisy but it is a diesel, they are supposed to rattle.

[Wantawinnie]

For some reason those years are not popular with the swap crowd because of electronics. I like the noise too, not sure more is better in a motorhome is all I meant.

[Rickf1985]

I understand the electronics bit but the 24 valve is 240 HP right out of the box and the 12 valve is 180. I forget the torque specs but they are equally different. That is substantial. The mileage is better with the electronics also. The only downside 'if you listen to the internet, is the Bosch 44 injection pump. But mine has lived through two complete lift pump failures and is going strong. As with anything you only hear the bad on the net and not the good.

[CapnDirk]

Weighed the old girl yesterday after our Labor Day camping trip. 13,600lbs. with empty holding tanks, nearly full freshwater tank. Diesel tank at a little more than half(guessing as gauge quit working). It was loaded up to travel with family on board. She's pretty big for a eyebrow Winnie! Lol

OOOOohh I get it!!  BBW!  Big beautiful Winnebago!  :)rotflmao

[Wantawinnie]

She's in good shape for the shape she's in. 

[khantroll]

One day I'd like to do a diesel swap, and I'm thinking the 98 24v. They are cheaper because they aren't as popular as 12v, and they have more power out of the box. As comparison:


413:
<These are specs from Allpar, and may not represent the industrial RV engines>
Horse Power: 375 @ 5000RPM
Torque: 495 ft lbs @2800RPM


12v: <Credit goes to CumminsHub.com>

Model Year   Horsepower   Torque


1989 - 1993   160 hp @ 2,500 rpm   400 lb-ft @ 1,600 rpm

1994 - 1995   â€¢ 160 hp @ 2,500 rpm (auto trans)   â€¢ 400 lb-ft @ 1,500 rpm (auto trans)
                     â€¢ 175 hp @ 2,600 rpm (manual trans)  • 420 lb-ft @ 1,500 rpm (manual trans)


1996 - 1998   â€¢ 180 hp @ 2,500 rpm (auto trans) • 420 lb-ft @ 1,500 rpm (auto trans)
                      • 215 hp @ 2,600 rpm (manual trans)   â€¢ 440 lb-ft @ 1,500 rpm (manual trans)


24V: <Credit goes to CumminsHub.com>

Model Year   Horsepower   Torque
1998 - 2000   â€¢ 215 hp @ 2,700 RPM (auto trans)  • 420 lb-ft @ 1,600 RPM (auto trans)
                    • 235 hp @ 2,700 RPM (man trans)   â€¢ 460 lb-ft @ 1,600 RPM (man trans)


2001 - 2002   â€¢ 235 hp @ 2,700 RPM               â€¢ 460 lb-ft @ 1,400 RPM
                     â€¢ 245 hp @ 2,700 RPM (H.O.)    • 505 lb-ft @ 1,600 RPM (H.O.)


2003              â€¢ 235 hp @ 2,700 RPM             â€¢ 460 lb-ft @ 1,400 RPM
                     â€¢ 305 hp @ 2,900 RPM (H.O.)   â€¢ 555 lb-ft @ 1,400 RPM (H.O.)



The 24V has higher out of the box specs, and being computer controlled it can be cheaply chipped for more power. It also bolts up the same as the 12v.

Now, the numbers above show one of two reasons I haven't moved forward with a swap yet: the numbers aren't a whole lot better then the stock 413 in my rig. You get the advantage of a new drive train and low end torque for days though.

[Wantawinnie]

The 413's were lower compression versions and had 265hp in the RV's from what I remember of the one in my parts rig. Not sure what the torque numbers were in the RV. I believe that was before the ratings changed from gross to net also. The net numbers are quite a bit less.

Edit: Found this on a discussion of 413 RV and truck engines

Dodge 1971/72 V8- 413-1 4 BBL 4.188 X 3.75 7.5 to 1 265 @ 4000 445 fp @ 2400 Sodium Ex. Valves

Dodge 1971/72 V8- 413-3 4 BBL 4.188 X 3.75 7.5 to 1 238 @ 3600 407 fp @ 2000 Sodium Ex. Valves

Dodge 1973 V8- 413-3 4 BBL 4.188 X 3.75 7.5 to 1 190 @ 3200 355 fp @ 2000 Sodium Ex. Valves

Dodge 1976 V8- 413-3 4 BBL 4.188.X 3.75 7.54 to 1 175 @ 3200 325 fp @ 2000

The diesel numbers are net and varied through the years. The 215 HP 12 valve only came in the 96 to early 98 manual transmission trucks. Pretty rare now as those pumps make the most power when turned up. Most common were 160 and later 180 hp with automatics. All can be modified to make quite a bit more fairly easily.

Do some checking on that early 24 valve swap. There is more to the wiring, thought it had something to do with trying to split up the system. Maybe using the gauges and everything out of the truck would help. Never looked into it as it sounded like too much trouble.

I'd probably go with a 2003-2004 HO if going electronic. 305 hp and 555 ft lbs of torque stock. Seem to be a little more durable than the later 5.9 HO's. But a lot of that may be to the tuners on the market making big power with those and blowing holes in pistons when they get hot.

[Rickf1985]

I have a very basic and fairly old programmer on mine and I am set at the highest setting on it and when I dynoed it a few years ago it was at 320 HP and 485 TQ at the wheels. It gets 12-14 MPG in a Dodge 3500 dually 2WD pickup with a 4,000 lb. slide in and towing 6500lbs. behind. So that is 11,500 on the truck and pulling 6500 which is about the same as a motor home towing a trailer. Running a 47RE transmission and 4.11 gears.

[khantroll]

Hi Wantawinnie,


You bring up a good point. I had a brain fart and forgot about the conversion from gross to net. My numbers came from the latest engines posted on allpar.com. The 12v number was the highest number posted, and the 24v was the highest non-HO number on cumminshub because I thought non HO would be more common. I will edit my post for clarity in case anyone reads it.


I'll definitely check into it, but what little research I have found made it seem like I would need a compatible dash cluster and an the electronic components from a manual truck to make it work. 02-03 trucks are pretty common in my neck of the woods, with complete engines with computers selling for just over $1000. A 12v long block, on the other hand, costs $3500, and a complete engine is $4500 to $5000. It even keeps the resale value of the 2nd gen dodges high.


My 1996 12v clocks in 175hp, 9500lb, and gets 16-18mpg with the manual trans and 4.10 gears (yes, I drive like grandpa).