Adding Air Springs

[Oz]

Sent: 9/30/2004 9:03 PM

I just installed the Air-Lift, Super Duty system on the rear of my rig.  The installation was very easy.  I just rolled under the rig with the tools, stood behind the axle (I'm a little on the vertically challenged side) and went to work.  There was just enough air line to reach to the rear bumper on my 23'. 

When I was done and inflated them to 50lbs, I could see the rear of the rig rising up.  I was actually a little concerned that I might have put more air in than I thought so, I let most of it out and did it again... 4 times.  I guess it raised the rear more than an inch-and-a-half.  From the side, it looks kinda like the old motorhead cars from the '70s... jacked-up in the back.  Is this what happened to the couple of you who installed them also?  Does anyone know what the coach height from the ground to the top of the wheel well or the bottom edge of the coach is supposed to be?  These air springs are made to be used at stock height.

Thinking about it; this rig has been sitting on those springs for 30 years and run on them almost 70,000 miles.  If someone did that to you for 30 years, I'll bet you'd sag in the rear-end a bit too.  So, my next logical question was, "What about the front springs?"  They must be pretty saggy also.  Judging by the tilt forward, I'd say so.

I'll be going camping this weekend so, I'll be able to tell what kind of difference they made (coupled with the Bilsteins I also installed).  I do know the rear was pretty bouncy from asking the kids.   If you get the whole system, it is quite expensive.

The front ones are available through Truck Springs.com.   The Air-Lift bags and systems fit all Dodge Class A with leaf springs from like '73 through '82, M300 through M600, front and rear.  Class C rear only, '71 - '94.  They can be used on earlier rigs too with a minor bending of the lower axle mounts and the instructions give a diagram and instructions how to do it.  Road evaluation after the weekend. - Sob



From: Liv42dayOK
Sent: 10/3/2004 2:03 PM

Thanks Dave, I had to stand on a step stool to get that angle...

Anyway, back from a great weekend camping trip at the Apple Harvest Festival in central PA... Doesn't just the thought of an apple festival cause uncontrollable adrenalin rushes in every limb of your body?

Road conditions:

Dry.  The road varied from straight and smooth to uneven, pitted, drunken cowpath back roads.

Was there a difference?  Or should I say... WAS there a Difference!  When first leaving town, I had an elderly lady veer into my lane on a curve.  I swerved to my right and ran up on the curb to avoid a collision.  Normally, I would have just shoved her back where she belonged but, I didn't want to miss even one moment of the Apple Harvest Festival so, when I cleared the curb, I noted that it seemed more or less like a bad bump.  Without the air springs, It would have been like trying to steer a team of wild bulls and would have created a potentially disasterous situation.

On the open road:  I was hit with numerous side wind blasts and air wakes from trucks both from the front and side.  I felt the bump of the side gusts and air wakes but, the rig didn't vary more than one inch from its course.

Once on the back roads:   I negotiated sharp turns on steep inclines and downhills, mixed with pot holes, rust, and worn outer road edges...  the kind that make your rig pitch suddenly to the outside of the turn and then abruptly back the opposite way (what I call "Weeble-Wobble).  Normally, I would have  slowed to a crawl and white knuckle the wheel in anticipation of the multiple steering adjustments I'd have to make.  With the air springs, the body predictably leaned and firmly returned to center with the first steering correction.

When we crossed a horribly mangled, old railroad crossing, it felt like normal bumps in a car.  When crossing raised roads, the rear didn't have an echoing residual bounce from front to rear (What I call "Teeter-Totter".  Please pardon the highly technical terminology).  Up....  down... level.

In conclusion:

The stability of the body was greatly improved with just one pair of air springs on the rear.  This resulted in significantly improved handling and eliminated the need for gross steering adjustments and over-steer.  The feel of the ride was firm and predictable when negotiating road irregularities and hazards, and from wind forces.  I would think that this would also reduce wear on the other suspension and steering components, lengthening their time in service.

I can confidently say that this was the best $215 up-grade yet.  I will certainly get a pair for the front as well.

IMPORTANT:  From: cooneytunes

"Just remember that the bags, will let you carry a little more weight and be much more stable......BUT.......never, never, never, go over your suggested gross axle weight, gross vehicle weight, or max tire and rim weight....The bags will stableize the body from bottoming out, and make the shocks work better, but they won't take the strain off your axles, wheel bearings, or tires.....Suggestion, get your Winnie's weighed, a wet curb weight, with full tanks of fuel, LP Gas, and Potable water. Now, add people and STUFF... You'll be
shocked at how much weight your STUFF has . The wet curb weight on my D29-M500 chassis is, 12,300 LBS, Max Gross Vehicle Weight is 14,500.  So that only allows me approx. 2,200 LBS of persons plus other STUFF. Keep safe....... Timmy"
Also, this up-grade is an augmentation to the vehicle, not a quick fix for other components which may need to be replaced or adjusted, i.e. steering box, king pins, steering linkage, shocks, bearings, etc.  Take care of these first and you will see a noticeable difference as well as being much more safe to be on the road.  An alternative is to have your leaf springs re-arched.  I decided to install the air springs because the cost of a fully adjustible system would cost the same as re-arching and give me full control over how the rig rides under different road conditions and the ability to use it as a campground levelling system as well.  - Sob



From: Liv42dayOK
Sent: 10/3/2004 2:07 PM

I ran the air pressure at 45psi.  This seemed pretty good.  I'm going to adjust -5 psi to +10psi to see what difference there is when I get the full system.  I'll likely run the front at 35 - 40 psi since there is less weight on the front axle. - Sob



From: Beatty1950
Sent: 10/3/2004 2:38 PM

You mentioned

the ability to use it as a campground levelling system as well

To do this adjusting of the airlift PSI while at a campground, are you using (or are you planning to use) a portable air compressor or ??

I did my weekly visit of CampingWorld in Fife, Washington and I noticed that they sell the airlift device also.  I did not check on price yet.  Sounds like this will be my next investment.  From the sound of it, I should be able to get my mechanic millwright brother-in-law to help with the easy install.  May install at the same time as I install the new steering stabilizer.  Then I won't know what helped the most... 

Still dreaming of a small ONAN Camp power generator and small awning ...  So much stuff to buy and so little money. 

I owe, I owe, so back to work I go. 
Second verse is the same as the first... 
Now all join in and sing.

Happy WinnebaGOING to all.

Dave Beatty
beattyd@yahoo.com



From: Liv42dayOK
Sent: 10/3/2004 3:28 PM

The load levelling, coach levelling is accomplished by using the on-board Load Controller I, Dual Gauge compressor , #25651 ($291.89) with the Load Controller I, Single Gauge add-on.  This allows you to control the pressure to all 4 springs individually.  4 springs, one compressor, one controller... $850
Better driveabiltiy and peace of mind... priceless.  Cash in the wallet... empty.

If you are a Camping World member, you can get a good savings on the complete system right now....SALE! - Sob



From: cooneytunes
Sent: 10/3/2004 10:27 PM

Sounds like a great buy !  I will investest in a set myself.

http://www.campingworld.com/order/wizard/index.cfm?skuNum=7826D&cord_Group=11

Above is the Camping World Link for air springs, and controllers for all the Dodges. ( M300 M400 M500 M600 )
They have a configuration page for other chassis.
Timmy 



From: Beatty1950
Sent: 10/4/2004 10:57 AM

Thanks for the Link.  Net cost before sales tax as a member of campingworld would be $675.60 for the complete system with shipping  including front, back, and on dash controller with compressor.

Item # Description Remove Qty. Coupon Code  Ext. Price Discount Item Total
8536 <INPUT type=hidden value=8536 name=sku1>  Super Duty Air Springs, Front - '73-'82 Dodge M-Series, '87-'92 OshKosh/John Deere Front Engine
Member SALE $179.00
SALE $198.89
Extended Warranty Available
This item is not eligible for Express shipment.

<INPUT type=checkbox value=1 name=del1> <INPUT maxLength=4 size=2 value=1 name=qty1>  <INPUT size=8 name=cpn1>  $198.89  - $0.00  $198.89 
1726 <INPUT type=hidden value=1726 name=sku2>  Load Controller I Coach Leveler - Dual Needle Gauge, Rear Air Springs
Member $287.10   Reg. $319.00
Additional Shipping: $10.50
Extended Warranty Available

<INPUT type=checkbox value=1 name=del2> <INPUT maxLength=4 size=2 value=1 name=qty2>  <INPUT size=8 name=cpn2>  $319.00  - $0.00  $319.00 
2777 <INPUT type=hidden value=2777 name=sku3>  Super Duty Air Springs, Rear - '73-'82 Dodge M-series Class A Motorhome
Member SALE $199.00
SALE $221.11
This item is not eligible for Express shipment.

<INPUT type=checkbox value=1 name=del3> <INPUT maxLength=4 size=2 value=1 name=qty3>  <INPUT size=8 name=cpn3>  $221.11  - $0.00  $221.11



From: salplmb
Sent: 10/4/2004 8:54 PM

thanks for the info on the air springs. looks like a very good idea for not a bad price. looking at that list of yours, if you want front to back control you have to buy the front spring add on for another $138.60 so total would be $813.20 plus tax and shipping. still not a bad price for the benifit of of better ride, control, and the use for leveling at a site. just a thought, if i was to level with the air bags would i still have to use jacks to stabalize the rig to keep it from moving when somebody is getting in or out or moving around?
thanks for all the help.
sal



From: Liv42dayOK
Sent: 10/4/2004 9:19 PM

If you want the front-to-rear, side-to-side control, you must buy the add-on controller.  Without the springs, well, you know what that's like when people get in/out or move around the rig;  it's like the same thing on a boat!  With just the rear springs, I guess the movement was reduced by about 75%!  With the front ones, I'm certain the movement would be unnoticeable, especially with the fully-adjustible system, you can inflate the bags to make them stiffer and you wouldn't need the jack type levellers except for a really uneven site. 

- Sob



From: cooneytunes
Sent: 10/4/2004 9:56 PM

Sob.....Just a quick question. How close on the left side,(driver side) do they come to the rear brake valve spitter ?Looking at your picture (right side) they look like they go where the rubber joist bumpers go. I assume you remove them? Correct? And they look like they clear all brake lines attched to the axel housing, but I was wondering about the little valve on the left side if there was enough clearence.
Thanks, Timmy



From: Liv42dayOK
Sent: 10/5/2004 4:07 AM

Good observation, Timmy.  You need to pay particular attention when setting the unit in so that you get it square and clear the brake lines.  The bolts need to be loose so it's easier to work it in there properly.  If you look at the upper left of the inboard U bolt in the picture, you'll notice that you can see a patch of the leaf spring through the lower mounting bracket.  From that angle, the space looks very small but, the bracket is actually arched well high enough to clear the valve on the driver's side.  There's even a nice cut-out in the back of the upper bracket so that it fits neatly over the wires running along the lower part of the chassis frame. - Sob



From: 73RVDUDE
Sent: 10/5/2004 3:11 PM

I just bought the rear set myself after hearing sobs testomony and how it's easyer to do than I first thought.

Thanks



From: Liv42dayOK
Sent: 10/5/2004 11:43 PM

You're welcome RVDUDE.  The installation will really be a cinch if you take off the rear wheels.  You'll need to put the chassis on jack stands and put a jack under the axle so you can raise it match the installation height of the units.  I'm only 5'6" so, I found it relatively easy to crawl under the rig and do it sitting.  That eliminated the hassle of taking off/putting on the wheels.  It's also easier if you drop the shocks at the lower mounts.  It only took about an hour-and-a-half to do.  Of course, the second one went quicker than the first.

I should be getting the front set within a week.  I will remove the front wheels to install the front set since they're easier to mess with. 

Enjoy the incredible new stability and improved ride! - Sob



From: Liv42dayOK
Sent: 10/12/2004 8:03 PM

I just installed the front air spring set and went for a drive to get gas.
The rig is totally stable and very smooth now!  Installation on the passenger side was easier than the driver's side (as is everything!).  No drilling required because the upper bracket is bolted in with the brake line bracket on the passenger side and the bolt which is in the same place on the driver's side.  Again, it would be easier to take the wheels off but... I'm Mr Twist-o-flex (and lazy).  Note the all-important heat shields and air line insulation. - Sob



From: greasemonkied
Sent: 1/26/2005 1:09 AM

I recently purchased and installed air springs from Truck Springs for the back of my M-400 and it was a great fit. I am concidering purchasing some for the front too. I noticed that the ones you used had heat shields for the exhaust. Did the front spring kit come with the shields or did you have to fabricate them ? Thank's for your help.
                                                                                             Greasemonkied



From: Liv42dayOK
Sent: 1/26/2005 2:48 AM

Everything needed was supplied with the kit, nothing needed to be fabricated or modified. - Sob



From: In2fire1
Sent: 1/30/2006 1:02 AM

Sob,
Could you post your pictures of your air bags. I just got mine from air lift and would like to see the pictures of your install. Pictures worth a million words to this back yard mechanic. Thanks Gil



From: chip
Sent: 1/30/2006 8:12 PM

i posted some pictures of my rear system quite some time ago if you wish to take a look at it.


From: Liv42dayOK
Sent: 2/1/2006 8:28 AM

Sent you the pix, Gil.  (The Bilstein shocks next to them are just decorations) 

- Sob



From: Liv42dayOK
Sent: 2/1/2006 8:35 AM

Gil,  Chip's been around for quite a while and his 4x4 conversion is awesome!  It was featured on the home page not too long ago.   If it's good for Chip, it's good for me, that's my opinion!


- Sob



From: chip
Sent: 2/1/2006 2:34 PM

Sob, thanks for the kind words but, be careful--my wife already calls me a "fathead".



From: In2fire1
Sent: 2/7/2006 11:52 AM

Sob & Chip

Thanks for the pictures. I can't tell you how much help they have been.

Gil in Los Angeles



From: The_Pharaoh_Rulz_
Sent: 2/7/2006 8:07 PM

~ LOL ~ You're most welcome!



From: Winnielover4078
Sent: 2/8/2006 11:18 PM

I have some on the rear of my brave, before we leave on a trip I fill them up, I would like to add some to the front, and add an auto control system for the whole mess. My school bus that I drive has some on it but I dont notice much difference in ride between it and our other ones that dont have air bags.



From: In2fire1
Sent: 4/4/2006 9:00 PM

Hi,
Have both front and rear aid bags installed and what an improvement to the ride. Do you guys leave air in the bags when it's parked for a while? One or two months.
Thanks Gil



From: Phåråoh
Sent: 4/5/2006 6:08 AM

Yes, I leave the air in the bags.  It's fine to let a few pounds out if you want to, but remember, the instructions give a minimum pressure not to go under.  I believe it's 20lbs.

- Sob



From: tatkin
Sent: 4/22/2006 5:09 AM

From www.truckspring.com I ordered part 1156 Firestone Ride-Rite Kit - Rear.  They were $229 ... 



From: tatkin
Sent: 4/26/2006 3:52 PM

Got em, got one on.   Pumped it to 50 and watched the coach rise about an inch.   Hopefully the weather will let me do the other Thursday...  It says max 100 lbs, I think I will try out 50 for a while...  At first I thought , these aren't going to fit.  Just have to squeeze the air out before placing and they slide right in.   I did jack it up about 5 inches also from the back bumper before trying to place them.   

Firestone ride rite-kit rear on a 73 Brave.



From: varmitexpress
Sent: 4/28/2006 10:03 PM

Anybody put them on a pre 1973? I have a 1970 that leaning to the driver side because they decided to put all the weight on that side. Batteries, fresh water, black water, hot water heater.etc
Thanks,
Varmit



From: tatkin
Sent: 4/29/2006 4:10 AM

Went for a ride and CAN tell the difference in the ride.

I just ordered the ones for the front.     



From: WestcoastRedneck5
Sent: 6/20/2006 8:41 PM

interesting stuff. Has anyone done the full package.Compresser & everything for leveling on pads.Can you just push a button & it will level automatically or am I just dreaming?



From: Member_Administrator
Sent: 6/21/2006 5:38 AM

You aren't dreaming... you can get the whole package, with compressor and automatic adjustment, as well as be able to use them for leveling at campgrounds.   However, this set-up is ex-pen-sive!  You can check any of the resources listed and get the pricing.

You can also make a set-up yourself, with a small compressor, tubing, regulating valves, and guages... of course, it won't be automatic, but it's the next best thing.

 

[MinnieWinnie_75]

I know this topic is ancient at this point, but I just bought the Air Lift 57215 - Air Lift LoadLifter 5000 Air Spring Kit bc it matched with a a 1975 D-300 chassis on the air lift website. Everything lined up on the springs and frame, but would rub if the rear dully tires were installed. I only had 6"  btw the frame and the rear tire of my 1975 D-19 Winnebago brave, and the kit needs 8" to fit.

Did the kits you installed mount on the outside of the frame to the top of the leaf springs, or did they mount from the frame to the rear axle? Any part numbers would be greatly appreciated.

thanks!

[Oz]

I don't have the part numbers but, the rear set mounts to the axle, not the leaf springs.  I didn't have to lift the rig at all to install them.

[Oz]

For reference, here's the front set (no longer available).
Note the difference in height of the air bag.
This installation wasn't easy.  Getting the nuts to start threading on the spring shackle U bolts was a real challenge as I had to compress the leaf springs as much as possible with what tools I had, one U bolt at a time.

This is the only photo I have but, compare the upper mounting bracket and height of the bags you have. You may be able to use them on the front.  If so, this would be ideal to know since the front ones are no longer made by anyone and would be the perfect solution since people are still looking to do both back and front.