Saginaw steering gear boxes

[tatkin]

Sent: 4/17/2006 3:28 PM

I see in one Dodge manual reference to the HF54 steering gear, in another I see reference to the 708 Saginaw steering gear. Are these both Saginaws ? in the book referencing the HF54 the word Saginaw does not appear to be there ...

Also, my 73 Brave, I was expecting to find this HF54 under the steering wheel, but no, it is the Saginaw gear, I don't know if it is the 708 though.

Also, anyone know of adjustments that can be made at home to the 708 style. There isn't any adjuster on the bottom like the HF54...

I thought this link was interesting.

http://www.off-road.com/dodge/ramcharger/tech_tips/SteerSlop.html



From: DaveVa78Chieftain   
Sent: 4/17/2006 5:36 PM

Dodge parts book indicates the Ross HF54 was only used in 1969.  They switched to the Saginaw 708 in later 1969 and stayed with the 708 from that point on.

Dave



From: denisondc   
Sent: 4/17/2006 8:25 PM

The Saginaw steering box is adjustable in place - certainly much easier than removing it and paying for a rebuilt. I sent you an email on April 10th (tried to anyway) with a .pdf attachment telling about how to adjust that steering box, among other things. If you have a spam filter it is possible that stopped it. If you cant open a .pdf file, with Adobe Reader, I could send it as a word processor file.
On the link you posted the guy removed the steering box. I didn't, because I didn't have a puller that would get the pitman arm off - due to the way it is mounted on my M400. I own several pullers, but none of them would fit. Anyway, I didn't need to. I made the adjustments right where it was. There is an adjustment on the very top, where the steering column connects, and one on the side away from the pitman arm. The order in which you make the adjustments is Important, and the amount of adjustment is Important.
Later my steering box began to leak from the top seal, not surprising with a 25 year old seal; and I put up with it until it was using a pint of p.s. fluid per driving day - and dripping wherever we stopped. Back at home I removed the entire steering box and bracket, and put in a new seal. (I got the seal part number right off the old one. 5688229... 2-51.... FK in tiny letters).
Taking the steering box off was tiring and dirty work. The bolts are large and rusty, the bracket plus Saginaw unit probably weighed over 60 lbs, and almost landed on my head. Changing the $12 seal took about 15 minutes, half of which was finding my Cir-clip pliers. Getting the Saginaw box back in place took a long time - with the wife working the other end of a homemade teeter-totter. No more drips!
A gent on the CWM site had a leak from the convex curved bottom of the Saginaw unit. There is an O-ring seal behind that convex cover. All of the seals in the unit are available, but the prices sure add-up if you buy the full kit!



From: tatkin   
Sent: 4/18/2006 4:18 AM

I never received a pdf from you. I received a message about how much weight can be pulled by the RV. And thanks for that also.



From: tatkin   
Sent: 4/18/2006 4:24 AM

I actually sent that Borgensen place an email, asking if they still/might have the ability to outfit a 73 m300. Time will tell if I get a positive response.



From: denisondc   
Sent: 4/18/2006 7:23 AM

I just sent you an email with the attachment, which is about 100kbytes in size; just after 8 Central time.



From: tatkin   
Sent: 4/18/2006 10:44 AM

Got it, thanks ...



From: tatkin   
Sent: 4/18/2006 3:22 PM

I went under there, loosened that lock nut across from the pitman shaft. That allen bolt turned like 1/4 turn either way and that was it. Do I have to loosen that stuff on top first before it will loosen 1 or 2 turns like in your docs ?



From: tatkin   
Sent: 4/18/2006 7:17 PM

This is another interesting link, not Dodge but still the same topic.

http://www.monte-list.nu/tech/boxmesh.shtml



From: denisondc   
Sent: 4/18/2006 8:22 PM

The pitman shaft has a slot milled across its back end (inside the Saginaw steering box): And the adjuster with the allen hex (in the end you can see) has a flat head on its inside end, which fits into the slot in the pitman shaft. Thus the adjuster can push or pull the pitrman arm. The Allen headed adjuster needs to be unscrewed before you proceed to the 'other' adjustment (of the steering stub shaft that pokes out of the top of the Saginaw steering box). The Allen headed adjuster might be stiff, and might take a longer lever to turn it than the typical Allen wrench. This might be because someone has overtightened it, thinking they were doing a quick job of doctoring loose steering. Or it could be a sign the adjuster has not been touched since the RV was new.
If you do exactly two turns -out- you can put it back to exactly where it was, if necessary. The first thing I had to do on that adjuster was to thoroughly free-up its locknut. Even the locknut was stiff on the adjuster.

The description in the link you listed is for a GM, and GM has been using the Saginaw steering since the 50's. My 55 Pontiac had a Saginaw steering box, and my 87 Chevy G20 van has a smaller version of what is on the Winnebago.
But the Part One, which only talked about the adjustment of the pitman arm was not correct. That should not be the only adjustment. Never!
The description in the Part Two was better, talking about steering shaft bearing preloading. But - it is not necessary to take the steering box off the vehicle to do this, and there is no need to get any of the fluid out. And the matter of tightening it to 20 ft lbs then loosening it a certain amount - is being technical when its not required, at least not for the Saginaw unit on the motor homes. I advise tightening the top adjuster plug until the steering shaft (or the 'pot-joint' coupler that is between the steering shaft in the column and the stub shaft sticking up from the steering box) begins to feels stiffer to turn back-and-forth than it was when you started; but can still be turned with your hand gripping it. This amount of stiffness will not be perceptible at the rim of the steering wheel!
I did the same adjustments to the steering in my Pontiac at 100,000 miles, as well as set the toe-in correctly. I did the adjustments to my 87 Chevy van when I got it - with 200,000 miles on it -, along with adjusting the toe-in. On the Chevy van it is a bit harder to reach the steering box because the space is limited.



From: tatkin   
Sent: 4/19/2006 7:30 AM

This is going to take a while I think. A lot of WD40 is going to be needed by the looks of that gear box.



From: tatkin   
Sent: 4/19/2006 4:36 PM

You know, before I get to messing around under there I think I will visit the junk yard. I would think they would have one of these laying around. The Saginaw gearbox that is. It would be nice to understand the beast first.



From: DaveVa78Chieftain   
Sent: 4/19/2006 4:50 PM

If have not done so, the first thing you need to do is get a chassis manual.
http://motors.search.ebay.com/Dodge-Motorhome-Motor-home_Parts-Accessories_W0QQfcoZ1QQfromZR10QQfsooZ2QQfsopZ2QQsacatZ6028QQsamcmZ6028QQsaspiZ2QQsatitleZQ28DodgeQ29Q20Q28MotorhomeQ2cQ20MotorQ20homeQ29QQsbrsrtZd

Answers to many of your questions are in there.
Dave



From: denisondc   
Sent: 4/19/2006 8:17 PM

Yes, the Service Manual has a -sectioned- view of the Saginaw box. The Dodge motor home parts catalog (thats the actual name) has an exploded view of it.

In the salvage yard you wont need to find a Winnebago to have a Saginaw steering box to look at. Most GM and Dodge pickups, vans and light trucks would have the same or similar box. I think Fords used their own design.
The only bad part is they will all be buried inside the guts of the vehicle. With luck you might find one that is tipped on its side. If you do, you might want to think about harvesting an extra fuel tank, if they will let you.



From: tatkin   
Sent: 4/20/2006 2:05 PM

And yet another interesting link.

http://dodgeram.info/tsb/1997/19-10-97.htm



From: tatkin   
Sent: 4/21/2006 3:08 PM

I did this over steering adjustment, it is not perfect, but it did make a slight change for the better. I am hoping to get that bearing preload adjustment addressed. I have seen a few adjustable spanners on ebay.