Need advice on getting wheels off

[SeaRaySRV16O]

Sent: 2/29/2004

Help please! Am relatively new Winnie owner of a '72 Indian. I wanted to pull wheels and take them in for new tires. After twisting several 1/2" drive extensions in two I went out and paid several hundred dollars for a Wright Tool Co. 1" drive breaker bar, 16"extension and socket. With the aid of a 4' pipe extension on the breaker bar I got the nuts loose from the outer rear dualies. Now it looks like I am going to need a square socket to get the lugs out that are holding the inner wheel. Had the rear axle jacked up with a candlestick type of hydraulic jack and the wheel is pushed up too far inside the body panel to clear it. It almost looks like I will have to also jack the body up now to get clearance, or is there a place on the frame that is used to lift the body and rear axle together so that the axle will hang down enough for clearance of the wheel and tire? Would sure appreciate any suggestions here. Also, anyone know fer sure the socket size for that 1" square stud? Thanx & Regards...

[denisondc]

Sent: 2/29/2004

There is a fairly standard truck wheel nut wrench, having two ends - one is the 1-1/2 inch hex size for the front wheel nuts and the outer rear wheel nuts, the far end is for the 13/16th square inner nuts on the rear axle. This was a pretty standard heavy truck wrench item for 50 years, before the trucking industry started using air-impact tools - but an auto parts place probably wont carry it. Go to a place that sells parts for commercial trucks, or at least does the wheels and brakes on them. Or the guy in the Snap-On Tool truck would know what you needed. The one I have is a KenTool Tr1 (32501). It has two hexagonal holes through it sideways, for the breaker bar. That bar is also hexagonal, about 3/4 inch thick, by 3 ft long. These 2 indispensable tools cost about $25 each. I slide a 4 ft length of 3 inch steel pipe over the end of the breaker bar for added torque. The nuts on the drivers side are left hand threads - but check that you see the -L- in the middle of the stud, cause someone could have put the front drums on the wrong sides! If the nuts have not been off for a few years, they will rust in place. Then if they wont unscrew nicely, I advise putting a lot of torque on them, such as standing on the end of the pipe about 5 ft out from the cinder block that you have supporting the outer end of the wheel nut wrench: then having someone else whack the side of the wrench where it is on the nut - with a sledge hammer. This helps to break up the rust bond between the nut and the tapered hole in the wheel. Just make sure you are trying to turn it in the correct direction.
I think a 3/4 drive is too small for these wheel nuts, and I know a 1/2 drive is. When tightening, I tighten them till they srcreech loud. And you never lubricate these wheel nuts, nor the studs.
To get the wheels out from the wheel wells you have to jack the frame up, not the axle. I use a 12 ton bottle jack, placed on some heavy lumber 6 by 6 pieces, right under the frame ahead of where the springs mount to the frame. I also put a stack of heavy lumber under the frame behind the rear axle, for safety in the event the jack slips out. With the body raised up till the wheels are barely off the ground, you can just barely wiggle the wheels out. You have to do the same thing for the front wheels also.
Can I presume you have the 7.50 by 17 split rim wheels? That is what my 72 came with, and which I still have, and which I am quite happy with. It does mean that I usually wont be able to buy a tire without a few days to a weeks notice, while they ship them in from some depot. The 7.50-17s are not commonly stocked where I live -the nations capitol-. Some truck places don't want to work on them, though the few times I had to have tires worked on the outfits did it without comment. They were truck tires stores, where my Winnebago was the smallest thing on their lot.
I change my own tires, and if you do have those split rims, I want to send you a cautionary note about the use of either new boots, or use of a metal ring to keep the old boots from seeing the sunlight shining into the slot for the inner-tube valve stems. This will help avoid flats. Let me know. denison

[wondermist59]

Sent: 3/20/2004

I too have resorted to using the 4 ft pipe on the old two ended lug wrench. It is the only way to get them off without air. I have found though that the lugs come loose easier from the 19.5 tubeless rims than the old 17 splits. If you can find a set of the old 19.5 ones at a salvage yard it will make tire replacement much easier and safer, but they are rare and getting worse every year. I am looking for one more for a spare if anyone has an extra around someplace.

[SeaRaySRV16O]

Sent: 2/6/2005

Hey people ... A belated thanx for the info & suggestions. With your help, and a lot of lumber and a couple of truck jack-stands and a bottle jack and lotsa leverage out at the end of that 4' pipe, and my neighbor Phil holding a brick up under the socket, we finally managed to get all the nuts & studs broken loose. Took four of 'em into a Power King tire dealer last June & had him take off the old tires for me. Since it was 3 weeks to get the tires in from TBC Corp. & then another week to get the odd sized tubes in that he had forgotten to order, I had plenty of time to clean & paint the rims. Got 3 left to do this summer but those were the best ones I kept so may push it out even longer. DOT date stamps on the old tires was 1991. That's what scares me, no matter how good they look and how much tread they have. Thanks again for the help. It outta be easier now the 2nd time around. Was rather remiss in getting back to you. I drove 18-wheeler last year & was only gettn home every other weekend. Got behind on a lotta things. Sorry...

Best regards,

Robert Donley
Jenison, MI

[Oz]

Sent: 2/6/2005

Thanks for giving us the final outcome, even after all this time.  Sure was wondering if they ever came off! - Sob

[bboat101]

Sent: 2/6/2005

We're not supposed to lubricate the threads for the lug nuts?
brian

[denisondc]

Sent: 2/6/2005

Normally you don't lubricate lug nuts, as far as I know. I have been known to squirt penetrating oil on them before loosening, if the nuts have been on for years. This was the case when I got it. I also cleaned up the threads, by running the nuts on and off the studs, with comet cleanser liberally coating things, then dried them off. Also, once I had the wheels remounted and tightened down, I put a small drop of oil on the exposed threads, just to keep down rust.

[olivereaman]

Sent: 2/6/2005

I am not sure about the latest Dept. Of Transportation rules on these things, but....we always use Never-sieze on all of our lug nuts on our vehicles (that's over 80 pieces) and have never had a wheel come loose. It certainly aids in the removal of them. I can't tell you for sure if it helps over a period of 10 years, but we usually have our wheels every 2 years or so and it makes a big difference.

[HeavyHaulTrucker]

Sent: 2/6/2005

There is no specific rule regarding the use of Anti-Sieze as far as the DOT is concerned; there is, though, where the use of any sort of oil on wheel studs is concerned -- it is a No-No.

Anti-Sieze compound is recommended on all wheel studs -- no matter what size vehicle.  It especially helps if the vehicle is operated in an area that uses salt on the roads -- keeps the studs from corroding to the nuts.

John

[Oz]

Sent: 2/6/2005

Well, I'll tell you what... I know a guy who breeds cows and I'm gonna tell him about that anti-seize stuff.  We use a lot of road salt here in PA and I know he certainly can't afford to have his studs corroding at the nuts!  - Anonysob

[HeavyHaulTrucker]

Sent: 2/7/2005

OMG -- Only you would think that up, Sob!!!  LMAO! 

John

[Dave Burden]

Today I scored a lug wrench for our '75 Chieftain.  It has an inner shaft for the square head on the stud and an outer shaft for the 1.5" nut.  Apparently you hold the inner shaft still with a bar then turn the
outer shaft with another bar.  I need to clean the tool up and little, but it was free so I can't complain.

Dave