What makes a "P" series chassis different from an "M" series?

[Clyde9]

From: Camperguynj  (Original Message)
Sent: 8/16/2006 11:05 AM

I've been stumped for over a year now.

What makes a P different then an M?  Do I need to be concerned when ordering parts or are they interchangeable?

All my information states that Winnie Ha-Ha's Dodge Chasis is a P300

The Chrysler/Dodge ID Plate reads:

P300  Rear axle cap 7500
Make - Spicer      Model 70
Front Axle Cap 3800      Trans   L%F
Make Chrysler Model A727
#37077051
GVW 10,000 lbs.
#326752280

Winnebago Industries Serial number WRTD 22S1554

Any input or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Jim



From: denisondc
Sent: 8/17/2006 7:36 AM

I hope someone can come up with a definite answer. I have only guesses. I have seen several editions of the Dodge Motor Home service manual, and they all begin with the 1969 chassis year. So perhaps Dodge had not set up a special -M- designator (prior to 69) for the the 'bare running chassis' they would provide to builders of motor homes.
In most cases I carry in the old part when I am seeking a new one. I know this cant always be done. First of course you need to find a place that has listings for the over 1 ton trucks, and where the listings go back 40 years. That probably rules out 9 of 10 parts outlets.
Go to www.moparmanuals.com and search for the years 65 up through 69, for Dodge and Dodge Brothers and Fargo (one of the brand names for dodge trucks), and see if any of the manuals looks like it might apply to your chassis. On a few occasions I have had luck with finding tech literature and obsolete parts, by going to ebay, and finding sellers of old mopar items. I then send them emails, asking if they have or can locate the things I am looking for. It has worked well. There is an ebay seller -irvb-, of Bishko Auto Literature, you could contact him and ask if he has any manuals for your chassis. Of course you can search on ebay for original hard copy manuals for your chassis too. The doctrine for naming the Dodge 'light truck' chassis has changed multiple times over the years, as has the doctrine for what is now called the VIN; both before & after the FedGovt began requiring a -standard- VIN over 30 years ago.
I have dealt with an online seller of obsolete mopar parts, dartman67@aol.com. He has come through with parts that other places didnt have listings for at all. I pay him with u.s. postal money orders. his prices are well below what the dealers charge. I have always been well satisfied with the results, and I hope he stays in business for many years. Im sure there are other such sellers for obsolete mopar stuff, but he is the only one I have dealt with.


I have taken pictures of the part I needed, and walked into a parts place with that. Thank goodness for digital cameras and ink jet printers!



From: DaveVa78Chieftain
Sent: 8/17/2006 9:10 AM

My take on this:
From info on the Travco and NAPA sites:

between 1963-1969 Dodge used a 10 digit VIN.  11 digit started in 1970

You should have something like 3267522800
(yours maybe 052280 since that number is only 9 digits long)

32 = P300 (1 ton step van chassis); 31 was a P200 (3/4 ton step van)
6 = 6 cyl engine (170, 198, 225, or 251); 8 = 8 cyl engine ()
7= Missouri truck plant (1 & 2 = Warren truck plant, 6= windsor canada)
522800= serial number

The P300 would be a van chassis, not the standard M300-M600 MH chassis.
B100-B300 van designation started in 71.  Prior years they used the P100-P300 van designation.

Dave



From: Slantsixness
Sent: 8/17/2006 9:10 AM

So much of the components between the M300 and P300 are the same that I doubt there is a distinction between them. however, I do have a truck manual that lists the P300, but It's always listed as M300/P300 and states "parts listing for reference only- use original Mopar parts from the part number on the part for cross reference." in most places, but there are some obsolete part numbers listed for the P300 only.... they might cross reference to an available part (not many do...)?

I know that's not a lot of help Jim, but What do you need? as far as brake and chassis suspension parts, we have resources for that, and the drive train itself, which I believe you have the wideblock 318 in yours... all of those parts are also "figure-out-able"

Most parts interchange from P300 to M300, with a couple minor exceptions, that you might never need anyway.

I'll look in my library of Mopar manuals and see if I have something that could help you more...

Tom



From: Camperguynj
Sent: 8/17/2006 10:49 AM

Wow ... you guys just never let anybody down do you?!  Thanks for the information.

What do I need, Tom?   LOL ... right now ... to get her started.

As you may or may not know, I don't know what the heck I am doing when it comes to auto/truck mechanics -- the extent of my knowledge comes from getting in the way of my neighbor and my older brother when I was little when they were working on their VW Bus and 1940 something panel truck respectively.  Wasn't allowed to touch anything but asked a lot of annoying questions and listened well.  Anyway ... this in "on-the-hobby" training I am getting now. Learn as you go ...

My last trip out (last year) the brakes went soft going and coming home I looked like Fred Flinstone trying to stop her. Fortunately, I was not far out and had a friend trailing me home and took the less traveled path..  Since I lacked funds ... and don't have the knowledge ... there she has sat for a year.

Now it's time to get Winnie off her bum and down to a mechanic to fix the brakes ... as the pedal currently goes to the floor. While she is there I will regrade the area. build her a proper pad and put up the canopy from Tek Supply that I bought . ($900 for a 12w x 30L x 13H - 10 at the sidewalls).  After that, I will be redoing the entire interior paneling and tackling the wiring that's a bit buggy in some areas ... oh and the roof ... which I started but realized the rest has to come first.

The batteries went dead as I didn't start her up often enough ... yeah - what a ma-roon - . I charged them, changed out the cables as the connectors crumbled under the wrench and now she won't start.  Turnsover OK but that's it.

Overwhelmed? ... This long post should give you a clue ... LOL ... but I know ...chunk it up ... put your head down and concentrate on one thing at a time and it all will fall into place.  Project management 101.

Now if I could only get her started .... hmmmm .... HELP!

Jim



From: denisondc
Sent: 8/17/2006 5:02 PM

An engine starts if it has 1.compression, 2. a burnable air/fuel mixture in the cylinders, and 3. spark at the proper time.
After sitting for months the carb would have emptied, and it would take a lot of cranking to bring fuel up from the tanks. A can of starting fluid sprayed down the carb throat might let it fire up briefly.
You can check for spark by taking the high voltage wire that runs from the ignition coil to the center post on the distributor,and carefully pull it off the distributor carb. Lay it about 1/4 inch from something metal on top of the engine, and crank the starter. You should see a nice blue spark. If you see it, replace that wire, and pull off one of the spark plug wires, from the spark plug end. Put an old plug into the cap, and lay that on top of the motor, and crank the engine (at least 2 rotations.) You should see a blue spark.
It would be very unusual to have no compression, but after sitting for a year, it might have poor compression until it had been started and run for a while - to lube the valve mechanisms and polish rust off of the valve seats.
You have to remove the engine cover to do this stuff, and dont check for spark when there are any gasoline fumes around. Also you need to buy a good sized fire-extinguisher and have it handy. You should also have it handy anytime you use the motor home.
If you get it started - check the tranny fluid before you decide to drive it. !
if you get it started, make sure there are no fuel leaks, no sparks, no smoke or flame- before you put the engine cover back on. Don't be surprised if there is a LOT of blue smoke. This will be from any oil that oozed onto the exhaust manifold or exhaust pipes in the time it has been sitting. Blue smoke from the tailpipe can be expected too, so don't worry about that.
Make sure it has motor oil in it, and coolant in the radiator.
good luck....



From: Slantsixness
Sent: 8/17/2006 7:56 PM

Jim, Dave...
I can't believe Dave missed this... right after the sentence about the blue spark....

If there's no blue spark, check the points! Sitting and age has known to "do a set of points in" in just a few months... check the gap, check that the actuator didn't break off (check this by cranking the engine and observing the points opening and closing, for instance.)

Now I know Dave just left that out by accident, so I'll still give him credit for thinking of it!

I don't like using Ether (starting fluid) myself. I have found it's far better to use a propane torch, open it up a bit (unlit) while cranking. Even if you have a fuel delivery problem, it'll fire almost instantly, and it'll never flood the engine and cause a backfire, unless there's something terribly wrong (timing, broken valve, which should not be the case for Jim...). Don't try to "run" the engine off an unlit propane torch though, just see if it starts and fires. (an open cigarette lighter wont work by the way... not enough gas volume or pressure).Then investigate what happened to the fuel delivery system.

Tom



From: Camperguynj
Sent: 8/21/2006 10:32 AM

Dave & Tom,

Once again ... Thank you ...

Printed off your directions ... waddled out to the Winnie .. took the dog house off .... the air filter off ... turned it over just to check if I could see fuel going through the fuel filter ... and low and behold ... she fired right up!

Now ... on to the serious ... brakes ...

Thanks again!

Jim



From: Camperguynj
Sent: 8/22/2006 1:11 PM

Ooops!  The number I left out was a "1" on the Dodge serial number.  Thereby from the translation above  --  a P300 with a  6 cylinder made in Warren

326"1"752280

Thanks Dave!!!

BECAUSE ...as Geoff from Alretta just pointed out (as he has the manuals) - somewhere the 6 cylinder was replaced with an 8 with the 318 that's in it now. 

The metal "charge card" called a Certicard has a date of 8/30/67 on it.

Mmmm ... I wonder if the original owner had the option to upgrade the engine ... and if so ... would the V.I.N. reflect that upgrade?