Using laminated plywood for trusses

[SmallDiscoveries1]

Sent: 3/30/2005

I have read over most of the discussions on roof repair. Since my newly acquired Indian is going to need some, I mean, quite a bit of attention to the ceiling and roof, I thought I might run something by the group.

Has anyone thought of using plywood to make roof trusses. My thought is that I could cut out arched trusses out of 1/2 inch plywood and them laminate them together with gorilla glue and galvanized or stainless wood screws. They would be flat on the bottom, for the ceiling to adhere to and arched on top. I would cut one good one for a pattern and then cut the multiple layers for each truss. Plywood laminated like this should be quite strong with the grains of the wood going multiple directions. Three layers would give me an inch and a half truss.

Anyone see a downside to this? Oh, and should I start by removing the interior ceiling or recoating the roof first? I do not want to take the roof off, if I can help it. How much can I bow the original roof without pulling at the seams, on the side, meaning, how tall could I go with the truss?

Thanks.

Steve

[The_Handier_Man1]

Sent: 3/30/2005 

Steve,  I thought of not taking the roof off and replace it from the inside, for a minute or two, but then realized since I have a garage to work in why not tear it all off.  I used 2x4's 16" on center for rafters and put 1/2" plywood over that. I can walk on it with no problems.  If you take the roof off you can lay the ceiling material on top of the walls. I used FRP and it looks great.  See my pictures and let me know if you have any questions,  Les

[SmallDiscoveries1]

Sent: 4/9/2005

I think I am going to go your route. I started tearing into the ceiling today. I pulled the ac off along with all the vents. I then started tearing out the ceiling. I guess that I am going to have to bite the bullet and pull the aluminum roof panels off and go from there. There was so much rot, mold, mildew, etc that the trusses were just breaking off with ease. Unfortunately the tops of the sides are rotted too. This is why I think I will have to remove the roof. I hope the sides themselves aren't too bad. I found a couple of drain hoses that did not appear to go anywhere.

Since the Winnie is sitting outside with no vent covers and no ac, I put a tarp over it after building a small support structure to provide a high point in the center on the roof. I made it out of scrap plywood and a pair of 12 foot 2 X 4s. It looks like it will work good. It should cause the water to run off the sides and not pool since the sides of the tarp are bungied. I would estimate the height of my tarp rafters to be about 16 inches.

I think my dad has convinced me to make some adaptations to my barn to fit the winnie in. It currently has a pair of 8 foot tall sliding doors at the front main entrance. It is apparent by the difference in the wood that there used to be doors on there that were about 12 foot tall. I will have to take out about 8 or 10 feet of loft, or rather move it back, but then I will be able to pull the winnie in. I will just need to build taller doors and buy a header.  The barn is at least 100 years old and can be seen in my photo album. The doors in question are behind the front end of the winnie. It is hard to describe but apparently there were lofts on either side of a main aisle. The main aisle has a height of 32 feet a the peek. It is at least 20 feet to the crossbeams forming the rectangular frame of the structure. This means, considering the side lofts are about 9 feet or so, I could see building a catwalk just above the tallest height of the winnie that could be used for servicing the roof. It would also allow me to get to the other loft without a ladder since there are stairs on one side only. But enough about my barn.

Steve

[The_Handier_Man1]

Sent: 4/10/2005 1:19 AM

Steve,  The "drain hoses" you found in the roof are probably the conduit for pulling AC power to the vent openings if you have an A/C installed.  Mine had conduit from the trunk area to the closet then to the vents.  Good luck with the roof,   Les

[54PrairieSchooner]

Sent: 4/11/2005 

Les, the pics you posted of your roof repair were awesome..I finally understood the concepts after seeing your pictures and was able to get some ideas for my own rig...

R/John

[SmallDiscoveries1]

Sent: 4/11/2005 

Les,

When I first visited your site I came across you roof off pictures and was amazed. I thought, there is no way I could/would do that. Now I think there is no way I can't/won't do that. LOL.

Did you move the holes for the a/c conduit to the center so the joists weren't split in two per factory build? I was surprised when I saw that on mine.

How did you cut those nice crisp rounded squares into the fiberglas? My wife and I found the fiberglas on sale at Menard's, but had to get a rain check since they were out. That is OK, we were not ready for it yet anyway.

I think my roof replacement will pretty much be just like yours. Thanks for documenting it. I may not give it quite so much height though.You gained 2 inches in height didn't you? Did I catch that you tapered the height on the ends to match the factory height?

Sorry about all the questions. I will probably have more as I go along though.

Steve

[The_Handier_Man1]

Sent: 4/11/2005 

I only put the conduit to the center vent hole where my A/C was located, not to the other vents.  I did put some wires to the vents for DC power if I put in a small vent fan later.  The conduit I did replace was run from the closet forward thru the fridge vent area then up into the roof and ran between rafters.  No cutting thru rafters that way.  I use either a roto zip, dremel tool or hole saw to cut FRP.  I started laying the FRP at the front because I needed 6" spliced in and did that inside the rear cabinet.  Wilbur's roof was 20'6" long.  I used 1x2's across the front and at the back then the first rafter was a 2x3 so it slopes down at the front and back to match the flat walls. I layed out the rafters 16" from the front and from the back so in the area around the A/C the rafters are closer that 16" OC.  My rafters are 3/4" tall at the ends.  Hope that answers some of your questions.  Don't be afraid to ask for help.  Thats what this site is all about.    Les

[SmallDiscoveries1]

Sent: 4/13/2005 

Thanks Les for the updates. More questions?

What did you do for the vent pipes? I have ordered galvanized vents to cover the vent pipes but am concerned about the slope. Did you put covers over you pipes? If so, how did you do it with the slope?

Well, I am committed to removing the roof. I placed two rather large orders today for some products. I ordered two new 14 X 14 vents and the smoke colored covers to go over them. I also ordered the garnish to trim them out. I ordered the aforementioned plumbing vents. I ordered a new refrigerator vent. I ordered some repair parts for my awning: a handle, travel knobs and a strap. I ordered all new Euro dome lights for inside. I ordered an AC Gasket. I ordered two sets of tv grips for the microwave and TV. I also ordered an LP leak detector.

I have been pricing new air conditioners and will probably order one of the Carrier 13.5K Air Vs sometime soon. Once the roof/ceiling is done, I will schedule it in for all that neglected regular maintenance stuff that needs done.

[The_Handier_Man1]

Sent: 4/13/2005

Steve,  Around the plumbing vents I used the liquid rubber roofing reinforced with the cloth for seams recomended by the roofing manufacter.  The roofing is suppose to be 500% elastic.  I will keep an eye on the roof from time to time.  It sounds like you have lots of great new things comming to make your roof replacement turn out great.  I decided to not put the old A/C that isn't working, back up.  While spending the week on the Oregon coast for spring break, condo camping, I stopped by an RV shop and found a new 14x14 roof vent that was installed then removed. It had the trim for my thicker roof.  Good luck and keep those questions comming.   Les

[The_Handier_Man1]

Sent: 4/13/2005 

Don't forget to install some wood framing in the roof where the cabinets are screwed into it.  I also put 2x4's on all 4 sides of the roof vents.   Les

[SmallDiscoveries1]

Sent: 4/14/2005 

Les,

That was my plan on the studs for the cabinets. Without a backer board for the fiberglas, there would not have been anything to screw into. I removed more of the ceiling last night.

We are supposed to have 5 days of dry weather so I may go ahead and take the roof off in the next few days. It has gotten to the point inside where I pretty much can't do anything else. That is, the remaining ceiling on the drivers side is still quite structurally sound and does not want to just pull out/fall out like the passenger side did. My thought is, if I go ahead and remove the roof I can more easily knock out what is left. I want to be sure and take measurements for placements of all the vents though.

I am still considering EPDM for the roof. I can buy a 20 foot sheet from Menards for $70. I may need to buy two rolls though for the length of the roof and splice in about a foot. I guess I could sell the remaining 19 feet on Ebay.

Did you put a luggage rack back on? If I put EPDM down, I think I might put eternabond tape under it, everywhere there will be a screw. Since the eternabond is supposed to be self sealing.

Steve

[SmallDiscoveries1]

Sent: 4/14/2005

Worked on the winnie tonight. My Dad helped. Thanks Dad.

The roof is ready to come off. The only things left to do are remove the ladder and cut the front metal. It would be nice if it would just peel off like a can of sardines. That reminds me:

  Note to self, use leather gloves when removing roof.

I think I will take it off Saturday. Maybe tomorrow I will take off the ladder.

[The_Handier_Man1]

Sent: 4/15/2005 

Steve, Wilbur never had a roof rack or ladder.  I did have a spoiler at the back.  It must have been for the ground effects at hi speed or else to keep the back window cleaner, you guess.  LOL   I am still cleaning the roof pieces from all the places it flew, like behind the fridge and in the furnace.  My old roof  is still in the back yard where I would measure things from time to time.  Keep up the work,  mine turned out looking great.    Les

[SmallDiscoveries1]

Sent: 4/17/2005

The roof is off. My wife and I peeled it like a sardine can yesterday. Ran into trouble when we got to the structurally sound stuff near the front. So I did what any redneck would have done and pulled it the rest of the way off with a two by four, a long length of rope and a four wheel drive pickup. A-A-A-A so anyone know where I can pick up two or three of the round clearance light covers and a piece of aluminum molding that fits on the drivers side front edge of my winnie? LOL. I still can't figure out how it nearly ripped that piece of aluminum in two.

I have all my trusses made and have 8 feet of roof framing put into place. There is one sheet of fiberglas over the front bunk screwed and sealed in place. It is ready for the next 4 feet. I was concerned about the weather. I thought it was supposed to rain here on Monday, so I was trying to get it under plywood. Apparently the rain is not coming til Wednesday. That is good. That gives me tomorrow evening and part of Tuesday evening to get the plywood into place. I spent a bunch of money on materials and still do not have the final roof coating. Of course I had to buy two new power tools.

Buying power tools is one of the perks of taking on jobs like this. I bought a rotozip and a biscuit joiner. The biscuit joiner is for all the one by fours along the sides. I am putting biscuits between the one by fours and the two by framing/trusses. So far so good. It seems to be making a nice stiff frame.

I ended up cutting the trusses to two and one half inches in height for the two center vent openings. All the rest are cut to two inches in height. I did this because I made those particular trusses flat for 18 inches and did not want to make the two inch tall ones flat and end up with a low spot for water to pond. This should work out really well. One of the other things I did was put a second set of trusses centered 5 1/2 inches beyond the vent trusses in order to better support the ac unit. That left me with, I believe it was another 5 1/2 inches, ahh crud, I just realized I need to cut 3/4 inch off of either side of the last set of one by fours I put up. I have the last truss centered at 48 3/4. Go figure.

Just keeping you up to date.

Ordered a new ac unit on Friday. It should be here Wednesday. Got the Carrier Air V off of Ebay for $439 with the heat strip. I have seen where people say the heat strip is a waste, but since I do not anticipate driving it too much when it is cold, I figured, what the heck. Forty dollars seemed like a good deal, otherwise it would have only been $399. My local friendly RV Center only wanted $900 for the same unit without the heat strip. I shopped around and found a guy that was selling them new with 100% feedback.

More later.

Steve

[Oz]

Sent: 4/18/2005 

Sounds like you got the roof going great and the Carrier V is an excellent unit.  I got one last year for $499 (no heat strip though) total cost.  It's really..... um... cool.

[The_Handier_Man1]

Sent: 4/18/2005 

I love the way mine turnned out with a nice white ceiling.  The one draw back of my white roof is the dirt that shows up.  I need to take my shoes off before going up  LOL.   good work,   Les

[SmallDiscoveries1]

Sent: 4/19/2005

Thanks Les.  Going to leave in just a few minutes to go work on it again. Hopefully all the fiberglas and framing will be up by this evening.

Steve

[ClydesdaleKevin]

Sent: 4/23/2005 

RVWholesalers.com sells the Carrier Air V for about 450, and shipping is included, which saved us BIG bucks!  I got here in about a week, and I finally installed it today.  I'll have to wait until I get the Generac all wired in to test it, though, since my wiring looks like Afghanistan right now...lol.

Kev and Patti Smith

[SmallDiscoveries1]

Sent: 5/16/2005 

I wish I had a garage. I am still working on this roof. I can only work on it on the weekends if it is not raining. Occasionaly I am able to slip out of work a couple hours early and work on it. Today, I got to leave an hour early and work on it. I was able to make all the holes for all the vents. Tomorrow if I can leave early I plan on putting eternabond around all the edges and seams and covering all the screw holes. I may try to get the epdm put on too. Anyone see a problem with using the eternabond under epdm? I figure I can use a caulk that sticks to epdm wherever the eternabond tape is.

I screwed up last week. My tarp is worn thin and we got some massive amounts of rain this weekend. The interior and top were completely soaked. So it sat without a tarp on it for a while Saturday and then I took the plastic sheet and tarp off this morning before going to work. The plastic had a lot of condensation on it. I ran a dehumidifier in it all day Sunday, and all day today.

I would be so happy to get the epdm glued down tomorrow, even if I don't get the alluminum put up around the sides. I will update how it goes.

[SmallDiscoveries1]

Sent: 7/3/2005

I may buy another roll of eternabond at some point and cover over the termination strip at the front.

Steve

[77surveyor]

Sent: 7/6/2005 

I know its a little late but on the laminate question .. you can get from home depot or most lumber yards a beam thats called an  LVL which is plywood laminated i used the 12" x 1.75 and ripped trusses down with a skill saw they are prestressed just look for the bow when installing when i was done i could jump up and down on the roof  and had no bow when i renstalled the a/cs LVLs are considered 40% stronger then other woods  but when you put the cieling panels up with screws you should use fine thread because you are going with the grain.