hard starting

[Clyde9]

From: lucidsodemite  (Original Message)
Sent: 5/19/2008 6:17 PM

i am wondering i have a hard starting rv. 1976 brave with a 440 dodge. hula gurl. she needs to crank over if she sits quite a bit before it will start. it will start right up if it has been run recently even up to a few hours. it if sits a day it is hard too start again. i had an old truck that it was the fuel pump was failing and letting fuel leak back. is this the case or do i need to look at the carb or choke? thanks for all of the advice



From: denisondc
Sent: 5/20/2008 8:16 PM

Unless your carb has been rebuilt in the last 5 years, I would think its the carb letting fuel leak out. They -should- hold fuel for a couple of weeks, but once the gaskets dry out and shrink, they may only hold it for a day - or even for a few hours only.



From: ZR91
Sent: 5/21/2008 1:36 AM

If you have the original carb-they leak and will evaporate the fuel,
If you have the original cast iron intake manifold-you will get heat soak into the carb, and your fuel will percolate.
If you have the factory fuel pump, they are not very good at preventing backflow when shut down.

BTW-just about every problem and question you have posted so far has been covered many times over !

Have you thought about doing a search of the message data base?



From: lucidsodemite
Sent: 5/21/2008 12:21 PM

i thought maybe it might be a carb issue but could the fuel pump be involved as well? i have seen these toics covered before but i hava had trouble finding the posts that have specific info i apologize for asking people to retype info they may have passed on several times but i am new and this is all new to me. the carb is it fairly simple to rebuild? i was a motorcycle mechanic in a former life so i am not inept but i like to be realistic about what is the best way to go. if sending the carb away is the best bet i will.



From: lucidsodemite
Sent: 5/21/2008 12:39 PM

zr91 are you suggesting that i look at swapping out the carb and manifold as well as fuel pump? would a simple rebuild do it? any and all help is greatly appreciated thanks



From: denisondc
Sent: 5/21/2008 12:45 PM

I would replace any fuel pump unless I was certain it was less than 10 years old - then I can forget about that being the problem for ten years. As for rebuilding carbs, I have rebuilt more than a dozen in my life, and my 'success' rate is about 50%. But being cheap or thrifty, I would probably try putting a rebuilt kit (mostly the gaskets) into your old carb. Its possible its leaks are due to the castings being distorted by someone overtightening them, when what it needed was new gaskets. If the castings are distorted, I'd look for an equivalent new or rebuilt. Outfits selling rebuilt carbs are usually findable on the internet.



From: lucidsodemite
Sent: 5/21/2008 1:34 PM

anyone have a part number for a 1976 dodge 440 fuel pump? i will try the local napa dealer and Canadian tire.



From: lucidsodemite
Sent: 5/21/2008 1:35 PM

what about putting a one way valve inline? has anyone tried to do this?



From: lucidsodemite
Sent: 5/21/2008 3:49 PM

is there a number on the carb somewhere i will need in order to get a rebuild kit for it?



From: Slantsixness
Sent: 5/21/2008 4:38 PM

Depends on which carb it is, as to where the number is... which carb do you have? The Thermo quad or the Holley? (came both ways) The TQ is typical. the number is normally on the baseplate in front of the throttle lever, but I have seen many that don't have the number cast into the carb at all, in that case, there's a tag attached to the upper body bolts. If that's gone, then just get a rebuild kit from Napa for a TQ... they're all similar, and you can tell from the parts breakdown illustration as to which kit is right for the carb. (Primary difference on the rebuild kits is going to be which style needle and seat you have, which style float and lastly... whether or not it has Emission venting in the bowl. This is for the TQ only by the way... the holly always has a number... like 4160-6 etc...



From: ZR91
Sent: 5/21/2008 10:47 PM

Well,

If you love your motor home and are planing on keeping it for awhile-then you may as well just bite the bullet and upgrade it.

My wife was not impressed when I spent a few bucks on our 1979 440 last year.

Edelbrock 750 cfm carb
Weiand aluminim intake
MSD 8.5 wires
Electric fans

However, not that the price of fuel has gone up from 91 cents a liter to 1.29 per liter, these parts pay for themselves quite fast.
I don't know what you pay for fuel in Ontario, but here in Alberta they are projecting 1.50 per litre before July
That equals $5.68 a gallon US



From: lucidsodemite
Sent: 5/22/2008 10:53 AM

why did you choose those parts in particular? not that i am arguing i am wondering if there was a significant reason? i do love this old RV it is growing on me... like  a mold. a lot of people say the thermo quad is a good carb. i would really like to replace the plug wires. do you use a points ignition system or electronic? i am still using points, they work well but i don't really like the old tech. what did the wires run you?



From: ZR91
Sent: 5/22/2008 12:18 PM

Below is some of the info from my post dated May 21, 2007. I chose these parts because of previous experience with them. Also, I did install a set of long tube headers and a 3" dual exhaust, which also made a difference in fuel economy !

 
Hi,
Our family just took our 1979 24' Minnie Winnie for it's maiden voyage, after many modifications. I am amazed at the difference some parts and a lot of TLC made in both fuel economy and power to climb steep grades.
Here is a list of the major mods done so far:
Weiand # 8009 aluminum intake( EGR& exhaust crossover deleted).
Edelbrock # 1411 750cfm carb(with economy tune).
MSD Blaster 2 coil&8.5mm wires, Accell cap/rotor kit(no msd 440 kit)
Electric fan(Ford Taurus 2 speed)
Hayden adjustable fan controller & 180 T-stat.
Custom ram air setup(scoop under bumper forces air into air cleaner via 4" ducting)

We averaged 10.4 mpg, best economy is achieved at 55mph, 2,700 rpm and 13 inches of vacuum.(60 mph =2,900 rpm and 10 inches of vacuum) Anything faster than this results in terrible fuel economy.

Headers and 3" dual exhaust are next on the list, and I may try a different cam this summer.



From: lucidsodemite
Sent: 5/22/2008 12:37 PM

is the edelbrock carb an easier carb to deal with? the stock cast iron intake seems to be fine too it is a dual plane and so besides weighing less being aluminum i am not sure in those rpm ranges there would be a significant gain. i am running headers and duals all the way back now and it sounds great and i think it really helps the fuel economy. the cam swap out sounds like something i might be interested in, that is a significant increase in power. the thermoquad carb i think is a 800 cfm model and i think with a rebuild kit in it will be fine. i would like to find a finned aluminum air cleaner from mickey Thompson as i have m/t finned aluminum valve covers. i would also like to replace the ignition system. what do i need to look at? i am not versed in these points systems at all. do i swap in an electronic ignition or just upgrade components on the points system?



From: Henry
Sent: 5/22/2008 1:12 PM

What headers did you use?  Also, did you totally remove the belt driven fan and clutch?

Henry



From: ZR91
Sent: 5/22/2008 5:47 PM

I used Heddman headers-only because they make several variations specifically for motor homes and the price was reasonable-I am sure there are many different brands and styles available.

As far as the intake swap goes, there are huge differences in the runner shape/size in an after market manifold that equalizes airflow to each cylinder ( I have a picture around somewhere of the 2 manifolds side by side) No amount of porting will ever get the stock manifold to flow like an after market aluminum one.

For the electric fan install, I removed the stock clutch fan and shrouds. I just used shorter bolts to reinstall the pulley back onto the water pump. I used an inexpensive Hayden thermostatic controller that you can get at any performance auto store. It comes with a temp probe/wiring/relay/adjustable controller and instructions.

I have been using the stock distributor, with an ACCELL cap & rotor. I have heard that they are not very accurate ( as I found out when trying to set my timing) So, I picked up an MSD # 8387 ready to run billet dist that I will install during my cam swap this weekend.

Jay



From: lucidsodemite
Sent: 5/22/2008 6:00 PM

i would like to see that pic of the intake. i will keep an eye out for some big block mopar parts they aren't easy to come by.



From: ZR91
Sent: 5/22/2008 6:24 PM

I bought my Wieand intake for under 200. I used the Fel-Pro gasket set as a template to mark and then die grind off a little bit of material so the intakes were port matched.
The difference in throttle response is amazing.

For the fuel pump I used a Holley part # 12-831 that flows 80 gph at 7psi. No regulator is needed, and you can rotate the body 360 degrees to make it easy to get your fuel lines hooked back up.


Jay



From: Henry
Sent: 5/22/2008 6:29 PM

What was the Headman part #?  I have heard that they often have trouble clearing the starter on 440-3's.

Henry



From: ZR91
Sent: 5/22/2008 6:45 PM

Henry,

I used part # 79220, but they have several listings so make sure you get the right ones for your year/model.

Jay



From: lucidsodemite
Sent: 5/23/2008 11:00 AM

are you still running points or are have you switched to an electronic ignition.



From: lucidsodemite
Sent: 5/23/2008 5:53 PM

where are you sourcing your parts from? i grew up in Alberta and i remember being able to get parts for anything at just about any parts store it seems a little more difficult here in rural Ontario. i will be trying my luck at the Barry flea market as well this spring. 



From: LJ-TJ
Sent: 5/23/2008 9:25 PM

Where abouts in Ontario are you located. I've got a 1975. I have a N.A.P.A. about 30 mins away and most of the time I they will back track the part numbers for me and can get the parts. Also if you might want to try a Car Quest, they have real good cross references as well as try Auto Parts Plus. Let me know how you make out.  T.J.



From: lucidsodemite
Sent: 5/24/2008 12:04 PM

i live in Lindsay Ontario about 40 mins west of Peterborough and 2 hours north of Toronto. i have tried the napa and when i go in there the guys behind the counter kind of glaze over and cant help me. i will try the Carquest in town. i am wondering where jay or zr91 has gotten his performance parts from.



From: ZR91
Sent: 5/24/2008 1:15 PM

I only use NAPA for maintenance parts, like oil & filters, spark plugs, bearings and u-joints.

You will have to find a dedicated performance auto parts store, talk to them about your goals and buy parts that will work together as a package, at your specified rpm range.

I did a quick search of MSD dealers, there are several in Ontario, hopefully some close to you. If they carry MSD, they probably have everything else you need, too.

http://www.msdignition.com/states/cana.htm

hope this helps
Jay



From: LJ-TJ
Sent: 5/24/2008 8:21 PM

L.J. and I are about 15 miles south of  Tillsonburg which is about 45 min. east of London.



From: lucidsodemite
Sent: 5/25/2008 12:56 PM

i went to the map store in nearby Fenelon Falls and the guys really helped me out. i had th ebrake switch and the starter solenoid to replace and no one else could muster up the effort to look for me and these guys found it! i also looked at the msd site and found a nearby( well in Oshawa about and hour a way )place that i am going to frequent and see if i can find someone to help me.



From: lucidsodemite
Sent: 5/27/2008 5:30 PM

went to an msd dealer in oshawa called performance improvements and i have bought all of the components to upgrade the ignition, new wires and cap and coil a blaster 2. i will be swapping them in soon. what did the Holley fuel pump run you? i should replace mine because i have no idea how old it is and i am going to rebuild the carb. i will keep my eye out at the auto flea markets for used stuff to upgrade. thanks for the help jay! preciate it.



From: ZR91
Sent: 5/28/2008 11:23 AM

Cool, take some pics of your ignition before and after to help out other members here.
Also, what plugs are you using? Whatever plugs you choose, you will be able to open up the gap with a higher output ignition.
For example, the ngk iridium plugs we use are factory gapped at .060 and work great with the msd ignition, compared to the .035 specified on the air cleaner.

Also, you may want to adjust your timing to take advantage of your better ignition, we advanced ours by 4 degrees.

Jay



From: lucidsodemite
Sent: 5/28/2008 11:27 PM


i will, and i think the motor has had the timing retarded already as it runs super cool. will have to check it i have a pile of parts to install this weekend so i will be busy oh well i guess the lawn doesn't get mowed again!