318 engine removal

[The_Handier_Man1]

From: yatchmann  (Original Message)
Sent: 3/11/2005 5:15 PM

I have a 1968 Class A Winnebago 22 foot that has a blown motor. I would like to replace it but don't know how it is going to come out. Does the motor come out from the inner engine access? Or does it come our from the front of the coach. I done think that it can come out from the front unless I tear the whole front end apart and I don't think that is possible. It is a 318 motor.

I have one other question Is it possible to replace the 318 with a 360 and not have to change motor mounts or do to much adjusting. If any one has any Idea about my problem I would love to hear what it is. Thank you



From: denison
Sent: 3/11/2005 11:22 PM

Hopefully you will get an answer from someone with a 68 or 69 Winny that Really KNOWS the answer, while I am going by the Winnebago Service Manual published in 1974. In that book they show the engine coming out the nose with a cantilever hoist, after removing the aluminum grille, the front bumper, and the radiator. It can be with or without the transmission. They also show it being lowered straight, after the whole motor home is stood on jackstands that are about 5 ft high, and the front axle is dropped from its front spring pivots and let hang down from the aft spring shackles, and the front frame. The front frame cross-member seems to be far enough forward to allow this. That scheme would require a concrete floor, in a bay with about a 15 ft ceiling, a way to raise the motor home onto the jackstands, and maybe a vertical engine jack. There used to be pictures in the albums of one member taking the 413 out the front of his 71 or 72. The 413 is a couple of inches wider than the 318.
My understanding is that the small block mopars, 318-3 and 360-3, will fit the same 727 transmission bell housing. The big block mopars, the 413-1 and 440-3 would require the 727 case with the slightly larger bellhousing. I believe the engine mounts are compatible too.
The 318-3 is probably just as easy to get parts for as the 360-3, so unless you have a 360-3 which came from a motorhome and whose condition you are confident of, I doubt the power increase would be very dramatic, and I would rebuild the 318.
Its likely the transmission output housing and shaft would be unique to the motorhome chassis, and different from what would be found in the pickups or vans having a 727 in them; different length, having the parking brake housing on the tranny, etc. And of course there are differences between the 318 and 369 engines in the cars/pickups/vans, from the motorhomes - like better engine bearings, better cooling passages from block to head, bigger thermostats and water pumps with more vanes, etc. Same is true for the 413s and 440s in the motorhomes versus the vans/pickups/cars.



From: DampDude007
Sent: 3/12/2005 7:05 AM

I agree,I have a 69 D22,it comes out of the front all in one piece,I would keep the 318 also,318/360 have about the same specs. If you went to a big block you might as well find you a winnie with a big block that runs,it would be alot cheaper. RV's are like boats,bigger is not always better unless you are going to spend more than half your time in them why invest the time/money? Do the math and see if it adds up. Good luck in whatever you decide!!!



From: DampDude007
Sent: 3/12/2005 7:12 AM

I think if it was me unless the block is cracked you could leave the block in the chassis(there is plenty of room)and take it apart from there,get the heads off and pan to see what damage there actually is first,the block may be toast,unless you have a huge place to tear it apart I bet you could do a mini rebuild and get by?? Like i said before it just depends on where you want to go with it.



From: chip
Sent: 3/12/2005 10:19 AM

as far as interchanging a 318 for a 360, externally there isn't much difference. rear engine mount holes are @ 3/8" forward on the passenger side of 360 [i think it's that side]. that's a "surmountable problem". the torque converter on the 360 has a weight that externally balances the 360. it's also slightly smaller than the 318 converter so it raises the stall speed slightly and revs the engine a little more before it moves the winnie.



From: yatchmann
Sent: 3/12/2005 10:04 PM

Thank you for your information I will take the valve covers off and then see what damage I did. I only drove about 10 miles before it was parked for good. I was so close to home I didn't want to have to tow it. Have a good day.



From: Slantsixness
Sent: 3/14/2005 1:54 PM

Yachtman,
I doubt it's really all that "blown" maybe a hung ring, a bad exhaust manifold, burnt valve, bad cam or pushrod(s) or spun bearing(which would show up as no oil pressure and a clunking rap). But unless there's a hole or a rod in the side of the block, it's worth saving! And may not be too expensive to save after all!

"rear engine mount holes are @ 3/8" forward on the passenger side....... "

The mounting bracket mounts to the rear of the flanges on the right side of a 360....for torque considerations (this is the same for the  340 LA engines too). You may also need a 360 mounting bracket, from any 360 Van or truck '72-'93 (they're swept forward 3/8"). later versions have the limit brackets on the mount (a good thing to have).
Be darn sure you get a 360-3 truck motor. the regular 360 and 360PI will bolt in with a different sump and oil pan, but eventually you will destroy the cast crank... evidence of this will be pieces of the thrust bearing in the oil pan every oil change, and noticeable movement in the harmonic balancer (in and out) under a load.

Other than external balancing, the torque converter does NOT need to be changed. use the B&M balanced flywheel/flexplate replacement (other people make it too...) and it solves the external balancing issue. The "different lock-up speeds" on the 360 converters were dependent on the application. In this case it sounds like Chip had a "car" converter (the smaller diameter one) the truck 360 converters are the same size as the 318, just has weights on the starter ring gear. And don't confuse a "1/2 and 3/4 ton pickup truck/ramcharger/trailduster 727" as a "truck transmission". It's not!
only the B300/350, D300/350 (2WD), M300/375 RM350 and M400 727's are "truck" transmissions.

Personally, I'd just fix/rebuild the 318-3, or get another 318-3. They hold up really well and with a little coaxing, have enough power, but it won't break any speed records!

Tom



From: greezmonkey
Sent: 5/1/2005 4:51 PM

I see you have recieved plenty of advice.  Ijust finished installing a 360 in my 68 brave. If you need any tips I would love to share before I forget.
danny