Fuel filters for rusty gas tanks

[The_Handier_Man1]

From: dave76Chieftain  (Original Message)
Sent: 12/29/2003 7:10 AM

After having to clean/replace the fuel filter several times on our Thanksgiving trip to see the kids (400 miles R/T), I installed a large one used by farmers/construction workers on thier fuel storage tanks for filling their equipment.  I did not have to change the filter at all for our X-mas trip to see the kids.  They are available at farm supply stores and only come with 1" or 3/4" NPT fittings so, you will have to get adaptor fittings to reduce to say a 3/8" fuel line hose size.  The filter itself is a spin on type (same size as and installed just like an oil filter).  Replacements filters are only about $6.  Total cost for filter, extra filter and adaptors/hoses was less than $35.  They have both particle (10 microns) and particle/water seperation filter cartridges available.  Does not solve a tank pickup tube blockage (I may have to drop my main tank due to this), but does work well if you just have the normal small particle rust problem.  They are designed to be mounted on a fuel storage tank outlet fitting so, you will have to fabricate a mounting bracket.  Sure beats constant fuel filter replacement hassels though.  The clear see-thru filters at my carb stayed almost completely clean after installing the new fuel filter.  Of course, the ultimate fix is drop the tanks, clean them and coat them with POR-15.

Dave
78 26' Chieftain



From: mightybooboo
Sent: 12/30/2003 12:35 PM

Dave,you have a SUPER idea here.I have a friend with an old 1971 Mercedes gas car that has the same type filter for water and particles and maintainance calls for draining it by just removing a plug and draining the fuel,plus a mileage replacement on filter.Keeps those injectors clean.EVERY Winnie needs one of these.Anyone remember my story about contaminated fuel and the backfire/slipped timing chian story?That filter might have saved me.I will add it to my summertime upgrade list and order one now.Water damage can be as bad as the particle clog problem,maybe worse.
Thanks Dave for a great brianstorm there.
BooBoo



From: mightybooboo
Sent: 12/30/2003 1:59 PM

Dave,I think my next trip to pic-a-part I will look for an old Mercedes with a canister filter.The replacement  filter is only 6 bux online.They work very well if good enough for fuel injection.Bracket built in i think it would be,has to mount somehow.
Denison,did you say something about a vaccum guage of some sort that goes on fuel line to check when the filter is clogging up?And how about a filter with a water seperator that has a guage that warns when water in filter?Read about em(Duramax Diesel),havent really seen one for our use yet,will search further and report back if i find one,the canister with a site glass like a RACOR sounds good too,available on ebay for 85 dollars.
BooBoo



From: denison
Sent: 12/30/2003 3:03 PM

mightybooboo: I added a fuel pressure gauge, via a Tee fitting in the metal line, between the fuel pump and the carb. It shows 7 psi with a clean fuel filter, and after travelling on a bumpy highway it will start to droop. First it drops going up the hills, eventually will start to run at a lower number, like 5 or 4, even on the level. When it gets to where it drops to 1 or 2 on hills, I know it is time to put in a new one. Mind you it will not have misfired or lost any power yet. The time it takes to clog up has been as little as 50 miles, but it may not happen again for 2000 miles; it depends on the highway roughness. Not once has it happened so quickly that I needed to make a special stop for a filter change.
Looking at the filter, which is easily visible lying in front of the passenger side tire, confirms the evidence. A buildup of fine rusty silt. Water in the fuel system has never itself been a problem for me, and my rusty stuff seems small enough not to be clogging the in-tank pickup tube.
It takes me less than ten minutes to change the filter, at a rest area, at a campground, or after ordering lunch in a restaurant -- I can slip out and change it in ten minutes. I have a square of cardboard to lie on so I don't get dirty, and I have always been able to do it in daylight. Tools required; a screwdriver.
denison



From: dave76Chieftain
Sent: 12/30/2003 3:48 PM

Your welcome Boo.  I am happy with what I did even if it does not solve the pickup tube problem in the main tank I have.  Then again, thats most likely a rust issue too.  I can still use the tank.  Just means when under a heavy load, say uphill climb, I have to switch over to the aux tank.  As far as bowl vs canister styles, I didn't want the balancing act mess of the see through bowl (cartridge style filter) while under the rig replacing a filter.  Just like an oil filter, this one spins off and on.  I have an electric fuel pump and the filter is on the pump output.  Either style of filter has to refill first before feeding the carb. Takes about 20-30 seconds to fill before gas is at the output.  Not sure how it would work on the input side of the pump.  Would have to have a very good pump vacume that way I would imagine.   If used with a mechanical pump, be sure gas is in the carb.  Hopefully that would be enough to allow the filter to fill.  This filter is may likely be best used with an electrical fuel pump for that reason alone.  When changing filters, be sure to coat the rubber gasget with a film of engine oil to ensure a good seal.  Just like you do when changing an oil filter.
I also have 2 small clear (see through) "cleanable/reusable" screen filters in parallel at the carb input too.  On Thanksgiving trip I just had one of these by itself.  Cleaned or replaced the screen element once per tankfull during that trip.  Added a second one in parallel then immediately got the big filter idea.  Neither small filter has had to be cleaned since I installed the big filter.  I will pass along how things work out (big filter changes/small filter cleaning) on this thread as time progresses.  Oh, and shop around when buying brass fittings or hoses.  A 3/8" Tee hose barb at one hardware store was $6.75.  At another it was only $1.75.  $5 is $5.  Even 3/8" rubber fuel line ranges from $0.99/foot to $2.50/foot.   Nothing irritates me more than jacked up prices, even if they know thier stuff.   Be wary when looking for brake parts.  The, shall we say,  ones who seem to be the only game in town, jack prices way up.  Saved $75 to $125 on my Dodge M400 front brake rotor by digging deeper and finding alternative sources.

Dave



From: rshaw500
Sent: 12/30/2003 4:26 PM

I have just one thing to say about filters.   I found myself driving thru Scranton one time and the filter was really clogged up.   I had to pull over because I was not getting any power.  While underneath working on the filter.....I was getting gas on me and on the ground.   All I could think of was someone driving by and flicking their cigarette out the window and finding my puddle of gas and me.   If you can.....find yourself a nice rest area.   I would not want to change it on the side of the highway ever again.   It is very hard to not lose gas while changing the filter.
Rick



From:
Sent: 12/30/2003 8:21 PM

     BooBoo brought up the guage for water in the fuel.  My International has one of thoese guages.  Not sure how it works though.  It shows a kpa per mil or something like that to show you what you are dealing with.  It has a reset button so that after you replace the filter you can reset the guage.  I've had the truck for about 7 months and have put nearly 17,000 miles on it, and the guage has only moved a very small amount.



From: Liv42dayOK
Sent: 12/30/2003 8:50 PM

Thanks Dave,

     I did previously put the POR-15 link in the Resources section but, I haven't had time to check it out myself.  I'll definitely be checking that out when the time comes.  - Sob



From: Liv42dayOK
Sent: 12/30/2003 8:56 PM

Thanks Dave,

     I am assuming that the primer/coating step be done expediently because, if the tank is left to sit, moisture condensation will cause the rust to re-develop quickly.   - Sob



From: dave76Chieftain
Sent: 12/30/2003 10:49 PM

Sob,
You use heated air to dry the inside of the tank prior to pouring the POR-15 sealer in.  This is after you have cleaned it with Marine-Clean and prepped it with Metal-Ready.  Like the instructions say, the sealer will not stick to a wet or damp tank.  It is a rather involved process but we have several here who have done it.  Haven't really heard a bad comment about the stuff yet.  The process maybe, but not the end results.

Dave



From: denison
Sent: 12/31/2003 11:09 AM

I still have a tattered electrolux canister vacuum, whose nozzle, connected to its exhaust flow, gives me the warm blast of air that I used for drying the insides of tanks. denison



From: Liv42dayOK
Sent: 1/2/2004 8:52 PM

Forgot to ask:  Do you know how much of the cleaner, metal prep, and POR-15 would be needed to treat/coat a 25 and a 35 gallon tank?  - Sob



From: nvdesertrat0775
Sent: 1/3/2004 11:37 PM

Some of the chemicals are re-usable, but I'm no longer sure exactly which.  I think the primary 'bath' solution can be reused.  As for how much of each you need, I think the POR-15 people have a gauge of sorts, (or maybe I called them and got the info that way...)for how much you need.
  As for the 'hot air drying'... I set the tanks on top of a shed facing the afternoon sun, and they were dried very quickly by Nevada's summertime Sun.  I reversed them a time or two, to make sure all nooks were dried.  If I had thought about it, I probably would've used my air compressor to dry them, and maybe got the job done quicker, but I'm not complaining.
   If your tanks still hold fuel, with maybe nothing more than pinhole leaks, I wouldn't toss them just yet.  I'm still quite happy with all my tanks...not a drop of leakage from any of them, water or fuel!  And I was more than ready to toss out the small water tank, it leaked so badly.
    Installing a Mercedes fuel filter sounds like a plan.  I'll look into that myself, altho I haven't had any clogged filters yet.

Rat