Bad steering box? Sway bar touches oil pan

Thenoob · August 27, 2015, 11:01 PM

Soooooooo

Been tackling many little problems on my 73d18, fixed some electrical issues etc, now I'm tackling the front end to try to get it sound.

Noticing the front suspension travels too far.... As bad as the sway bar touches the oil pan. I do feel the steering pretty loose and un-reactive when initially turning and def consistently turning left and right to keep the rig straight. I want to fix this problem and feel comfortable in my rig. Any ideas where to start? I've got her all blocked up and want to tackle it.

Going to change the front shocks as well, anybody have a replacement part number to reference? I've obviously tried the one in the member section (manual) but she's an old part.

Thanks in advance.

I'm going

Thenoob · August 27, 2015, 11:14 PM

Found the correct part number on monroe for my application

If anybody's looking for the same:
http://www.monroe.com/en-US/catalog/e-Catalog/555011

Oz · August 27, 2015, 11:22 PM

That info should be posted here:

http://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php/topic,7411.msg33218.html#msg33218

Thenoob · August 27, 2015, 11:58 PM

Gotcha

I'll post it there. If anybody has any idea where to stArt with the sway bar issue, fire away I'm going to try to figure it out

Thenoob · August 28, 2015, 02:39 PM

So I think it's the shocks in the front

I believe the old ones are giving too much travel in the front when braking or moving up and down and letting oil
Pan come down. Am
Replacing shocks tomorrow, will update if that fixes.

Now noticing the good old steering gearbox is all
Kinds of messed up, anybody replaced theirs rather then rebuilding and have access to a part #

Thenoob · August 28, 2015, 03:06 PM

https://www.napacanada.com/en/auto-parts-accessories/search/part-number.aspx#Detail

Off the parts database on here it shows this part, can anyone confirm this? Pretty steep
Part at 316.00 but it's covered in oil and most likely a solid reasoning behind the play in the steering. I have a good understanding how to adjust the play, but amount of leakage on this box makes me just want to replace it for piece of mind.

Thanks in advance

Thenoob · August 28, 2015, 03:07 PM

Sorry forgot to add I have the m300 (318-r) chassis. I don't know if that part that's listed is a universal for all the dodge winnies of those years?

rustyzman · August 28, 2015, 05:47 PM

While my rig is different than yours, let me see if I can add a touch of advice on the sway bar. I assume this is the original factory sway bar. I also assume that your sway bar has a bent down/bow in it that crosses under the oil pan and when you are driving, when the suspension moves up and down, that bent section rotates up and hits the oil pan? If so, replacing the shocks will not fully correct this. Even if they were to dampen the movement more, the system was designed to never let the bar hit anything, hence the bent down section. Things to look at would be, Suspension bump stops - these should be in place on the frame to limit the suspension travel should it move so much as to bottom out. As a general note on many vehicles (at least around here), they tend to eventually rust out and the rubber falls off. That would be step one for me. Next would be to see if the engine mounts have degraded and allowed the engine to sit lower than normal. This could contribute to it hitting. I have had this happen on a personal vehicle many years ago. Next take a look at the end links themselves. If they are just plain bolts with bushings, they may have been replaced in the past with a set of a different length. Most bars need a particular length to "clock the bar" in the correct position so the total suspension travel will not cause interference.

If this is an aftermarket bar, you may have to play with it to make it work. I.E. different links, making spacer blocks on the frame mounts to lower the bar, stuff like that.
If your setup is nothing like I described, just ignore my post as it will not help. I don't know what yours looks like so this is just a general stab based on all the vehicle designs I have worked on over the years.

Replace the steering gear with a quality reman unit if you have any doubts about it. Always worth the money and effort for that kind of piece of mind.

By all means do the shocks, they will have an effect on vehicle control for sure.

Rickf1985 · August 28, 2015, 08:03 PM

And on a vehicle that old I can guarantee the springs are sagging and that alone is going to cause it to sit low, bottom out, and generally ride like crap. Shocks will NOT help fatigued springs.

Thenoob · August 28, 2015, 08:07 PM

Yup you are correct.

The only other thing I can think of is the rubber pads where the mounts are seen to be somewhat flaking away, nothing that would make it drop like mad..... The mounts themselves are fine.

I'll have a look at the bump stops, I didn't see anything out of the ordinary but another deep look should help.

Appreciate the detailed write up.

Rickf1985 · August 28, 2015, 08:12 PM

Somewhere in the alignment specs there should be ride height specs. If not there then in the FSM. I would check that against what yours is.

rustyzman · August 28, 2015, 10:27 PM

If you are seeing the rubber on the mounts flake away, I would suggest replacement soon. Sometimes they compress over time and take away just that little extra bit of clearance that you need. There may not have been a lot to begin with so a combination of items may bring it all back to normal. Have to pick away until you find the final cause.

With the age of most of our rigs, pretty much everything could stand to be replaced and show some level of improvement!

HandyDan · August 28, 2015, 11:43 PM

http://www.monroeheavyduty.com/assets/catalog/2014-2015-MonroeCV-RecreationalVehicles.pdf This chart has been on the forum for several years. I believe the numbers are still valid. It is more helpful than the standard Monroe catalog.

Thenoob · August 30, 2015, 10:57 AM

I'm going to inspect the front springs today.

How do you go about purchasing new ones? I can install them fine just would have to find a set

DaveVA78Chieftain · August 30, 2015, 02:24 PM

Please note that the stock M300 chassis in that year range did not include a sway bar. If a sway bar is present it is an aftermarket add on.
e.g.: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/aco-153/media/instructions/

Thenoob · August 30, 2015, 04:02 PM

Well that just got interesting...
Appreciate that info very very much

Obviously a sway bar does what it's supposed to do....who doesn't have one on their rig and can tell me how theirs handles.

Rickf1985 · August 30, 2015, 06:03 PM

Any spring shop can make you up a set of springs. I am not familiar with the older Dodges so I do not know if it is leaf or coil. I am pretty sure it is leaf springs. Shipping them would be cost prohibitive so a local spring shop would be the best bet. If it is coil I would get in touch with Stengel Bros. spring.
https://www.google.com/maps/uv?hl=en&pb=!1s0x89c4399c84205873:0xfa33e40e66933630!2m5!2m2!1i80!2i80!3m1!2i100!3m1!7e1!4shttps://picasaweb.google.com/lh/sredir?uname%3D106721803368073104185%26id%3D6112728415582226898%26target%3DPHOTO!5sstengel+bros+-+Google+Search&sa=X&ved=0CIYBEKIqMApqFQoTCPn9vcnn0ccCFUgzPgodpuEMuQ

DaveVA78Chieftain · August 30, 2015, 08:35 PM

Rick,
All Dodge Class A Motorhome chassis are front I beam with leaf springs. 74 and later had front disc, rear drum. 73 had a mixture of drum/drum, and disc/drum. 72 and earlier had drum/drum. Rear where leaf springs with either a Dana 60 or 70 axle. 68/69 and earlier (e.g TRAVCO) used the Dodge P300 or P400 chassis. Some 68 Winnebago where based on a Ford P300 chassis with 6 cylinder.

Thenoob · August 30, 2015, 11:34 PM

Yup my fronts are leaves.

I'll be making some calls. I guess best thing to do is look at the curve to see the if the arches are gone

Oz · August 30, 2015, 11:50 PM

Very good chance they are. Most of them are is serious need of re-arching. Think about it. If you had a few tons sitting constantly on your springs, all day, every day, for 40+ years, I think they'd be sagging too...

(Yup, there's a topic on that...)
http://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php/topic,1148.msg1176.html#msg1176

rustyzman · September 01, 2015, 07:11 PM

I would go to great lengths (and have in fact) to have sway bars, particularly on something this top heavy. Consider making spacer blocks for the bar where it mounts to the frame. You can likely make up the space you need there. It will effectively lower the bent section away from the pan. If needed then, you can also replace the end links with shorter grade 8 bolts, trim the spacers as needed and make it all fit exactly as you like. Sway bars are wonderful. So are air bags. I would make it work rather than remove it.

My class C had no sway bars when I got it and it was downright scary to drive. Now with front and rear bars plus rear air bags I can actually drive with one hand when needed and occasionally take a sip of coffee without changing lanes or exploring ditches.

Thenoob · September 02, 2015, 03:56 PM

Did you put airbags in a chevy or dodge?

I looked at an airbag kit for the m300 chassis (dodge) but haven't been able
To find a solid kit?

rustyzman · September 03, 2015, 08:37 PM

A 73 dodge class c (van body). The kit is for the rear only. No front airbags available for the front on my model. I must say that the front and rear sway bars plus the rear airbags are worth every penny.
Not sure what is out there for a solid axle model as a kit, but surely with some research and fabrication a front airbag setup could be made. The hot rodders do it a lot. Plus bags are made all the way up to class 8 trucks so capacity should not be an issue.
Mine is impractical because the shocks go through the center of the springs in front. I would need hollow center airbags. Could not find anything that would fit.