Fire Arms and RVing

[Froggy1936]

  WAL SHUT MY MOUTH !

[Oz]

This topic is about guns and RVing:  Laws, storage, safety, etc.  but not a platform for opinions on politically charged topics such as gun control or whether one should or shouldn't carry guns as a matter of personal opinion... politicians, gay rights, illegal immigrants, etc., etc., etc.

We all have our opinions about these issues and I talk about them with friends as much as anyone else.  However, discussing such emotionally charged topics on a forum as diverse and active as ours will inevitably lead to disagreement, debate, and has a high potential for escalation.

Please remember to avoid these types of topics and issues.

We're about vintage RVing. 

[JerryP]

Here is something for you to think about. Bluebird, I am with you but this is serious stuff you are doing.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/02/18/flintlock-from-1700s-could-land-elderly-nj-man-in-prison/

These guys get into trouble because they allowed a search, or told the police what they have, when it is none of the polices business, and there is no reason to tell them anything

Never give them permission to search anything, and always use the right to remain silent.
In other words shut up, and never let them search anything.
If they ask, just say no.
Put that smart phone to work recording the interaction.
When the police say it is illegal to film them, they are lying, because the Supreme court has spoken clearly on that subject.
I used to do a lot of investigations, and the more people talk, the more they would get themselves into trouble.
Plenty of You tube videos, and info out there to show you how to handle police interactions.
Be polite, but say as little as possible....
Know your rights, Rights are like muscles, without exercising them, they quickly atrophy.
Just say no!!

[Rickf1985]

Jerry, You do not live in NJ. Yes, You can say no to a search and here is what will happen. You will sit there until they get a search warrant, which they WILL get based on suspicious behavior. OR, You will sit in a police station and your car will be impounded until they can get that warrant. I am well aware of the laws of the country but I am also well aware of how NJ works. It is entirely possible that he opened the glove compartment to get his paperwork and they saw the gun, they always watch the contents of the glovebox when it is opened. Who would think they would get in trouble for an antique. I was just pointing out how bad this state is and how strict the laws are here. You do NOT want to bring a firearm into this state, period. Even if it is registered and you have a carry permit you will be arrested. Granted they may never know you have it but what happens if they find out? Is it worth 7 years in jail and a felony charge? ALWAYS check the local laws before proceeding into a state.

[bluebird]

Transporting a Firearm Into / Through the State of New Jersey
All firearms transported into the State of New Jersey:

Shall be carried unloaded and contained in a closed and fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package, or locked in the trunk of the automobile in which it is being transported, and in the course of travel, shall include only such deviations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances.

The firearm should not be directly accessible from the passenger compartment of the vehicle. If the vehicle does not have a compartment separate from the passenger compartment, the firearm and ammunition must be in a locked container other than the vehicle's glove compartment or console.

[JerryP]

Jerry, You do not live in NJ. Yes, You can say no to a search and here is what will happen. You will sit there until they get a search warrant, which they WILL get based on suspicious behavior. OR, You will sit in a police station and your car will be impounded until they can get that warrant. I am well aware of the laws of the country but I am also well aware of how NJ works. It is entirely possible that he opened the glove compartment to get his paperwork and they saw the gun, they always watch the contents of the glovebox when it is opened. Who would think they would get in trouble for an antique. I was just pointing out how bad this state is and how strict the laws are here. You do NOT want to bring a firearm into this state, period. Even if it is registered and you have a carry permit you will be arrested. Granted they may never know you have it but what happens if they find out? Is it worth 7 years in jail and a felony charge? ALWAYS check the local laws before proceeding into a state.

Ask if you are under arrest, and if you are being detained, or if you are free to go, ask it a lot, to the point of irritation, and record it...
Just say no, and remember video, and audio are for your protection.
Getting a search warrant because you would not let them search is not probable cause.
They also rely on the natural behavior of people tending to feel obliged to answer questions, or explain themselves,
Change the game, be polite, and nice, but say nothing, explain nothing, admit nothing.


Knowledge is power. Know your rights, and in these situations the cops are the enemy, so do not treat them like a friend.
If you tell them what you have, or allow them to search, you are going to be detained anyway, so why do their job for them. Making them do work for it, means it is more likely for them to make an error, and do something wrong, that gets stuff thrown out.
As I said, these people get in trouble because they talked too much, or allowed a search.... Say very little, and never allow them to search, everyone has a smart phone anymore, so put it to work, recording.
This is not a police state, so there is no reason to be cowed by a cop.
I have no doubt they can do whatever they want, but that gets taken care of in court, and I am not allowing a search even if I have nothing in my vehicle. I am just that way. I get bent over TSA searches at the airport.
I retired after 20 years in Law enforcement, so I know what is up, and know there are some big giant jerk with badges, and guns, but there are also a lot of guys just doing their job, trying to get through the day as easy as possible.

[Rick Shaw]

If you have a concealed carry, why would they arrest you?  Is this because your concealed carry may be from a different state?

[LJ-TJ]

Hey! Is this Rick Shaw from a hundred years ago that fell of the face of the earth?? Hm?

[Lefty]

In my state Alabama, In order to carry a pistol in a vehicle, you need a concealed carry permit. If you do not have a Alabama Concealed Carry permit, a pistol (unloaded) may be carried in a vehicle if it is locked in a compartment that is inaccessible to the driver and passengers during vehicle operation. A car trunk is an example, but an exterior storage compartment that has a keyed lock and no access from the interior would be another example. The gun must be unloaded.
Alabama has an open carry law. You are permitted to carry a gun anytime or anywhere, with a few exceptions (schools, courthouses, federal military bases, etc...) with no permit, as long as you are legally allowed to own the gun (ie; not a convicted felon) provided it is carried in plain sight, such as a belt or shoulder holster that is uncovered.

http://whnt.com/2013/07/30/alabamas-new-gun-law-what-you-need-to-know/

[Rickf1985]

If you have a concealed carry, why would they arrest you?  Is this because your concealed carry may be from a different state?

NJ is a no carry state. There is no concealed or open carry allowed by private citizens in the state of NJ. That includes out of state carry permits, NOT allowed.
Jerry, You said the key words here, you are retired law enforcement. You have an advantage over a lot of us. There was just an incident not long ago where a woman was caught with a registered and permitted gun in NJ. The permit was from Pa. She almost went to Jail. The only thing that saved her was a very high profile attorney and a LOT of publicity.

[Lefty]

There is nothing illegal about transporting a firearm thru New Jersey, nor are you required to have or obtain any sort of New Jersey license or registration. As long as you are in compliance with Federal Interstate Transport laws for firearms. I will add, this is pretty much true regardless of the state you are passing thru. New York State, and especially New York City are another matter, as the laws there are extremely restrictive, and the New York State police officially refuses to recognize the federal laws regarding carrying firearms thru the state by non-residents. Out of state travelers have been arrested and charged for possession of a firearm, even if they otherwise were legally permitted and in compliance with the law. There are a few other places that are almost as restrictive, such as Washington DC... so I'd highly recommend reading each states laws prior to any trip for any state you might be passing thru. Going to jail or getting a hefty fine is no way to have a fun trip.
The issue of wearing and carrying a firearm on your person is another matter.
New Jersey residents can apply for a permit to carry, as referenced in the F.A.Q. here :http://www.njsp.org/about/firearms-faqs.html
"Q8: How do I apply for a permit to carry a handgun?
A8: If you reside in New Jersey, you must apply with municipal police department where reside. If the municipality where you reside is serviced by the New Jersey State Police, you must apply at the station which covers your municipality. Out of state residents must apply to the New Jersey State Police station nearest to their geographic location. Armored car employees must apply with the New Jersey State Police, regardless of where they reside."
They do not however honor permits to carry that are issued in other states.


Read this: http://www.njsp.org/about/fire_trans.html

18 U.S. Code § 926A - Interstate transportation of firearms
Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver’s compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.
- That is the Federal Law in reference.

The problem begins when people attempt to transport a weapon that is loaded, and not locked in a secure, separate compartment (ie: an exterior compartment, or a car trunk.), Glove boxes are specifically mentioned as not acceptable, as they are accessible by the passenger or driver while the vehicle is in motion.
To be specific, a gun must be locked unloaded in a compartment that is not accessible by the driver or passengers from within the vehicle, and ammunition must be kept in a separate compartment from the firearm.

[1990HR]

This topic is very interesting to me.
I have a concealed pistol permit from my state that is recognized by 31 states.
I DO carry a Glock 19 while we travel and have had only one encounter with a cop while carrying a pistol.
Was not a big deal, showed permit, took out pistol and dropped clip, set pistol down and it was end of discussion.
Still got a speeding ticket though
I honestly think if your vehicle is well maintained, no pot leaf or peace signs on the side, you are clean cut and don't look like a scum bag, the police are not going to bother you.
Use common sense and you will be fine.

[ClydesdaleKevin]

We simply avoid traveling through states or doing business in states that don't recognize my CCL.

Kev