Step Switch Operation and STEP Light

lngfish · October 07, 2015, 06:34 AM

I need a refresher on this switch.

I read Ricks problem, current drain, but still need a basic understanding of what I should expect my switch to do cause I forget how it functioned and I think I have a problem of this circuit draining my engine battery.

This is what I remember about it:

1. Even if it is OFF step come up if you turn the IGN switch on.
2. If you put steps out and turn it off steps stays out, unless you do #1.
3. If Switch ON steps go up and down on a Mag switch on screen if left on.

What I forget is:

1. Does the light under the steps stay ON if steps are out and switch is OFF?

If so, my light is off and I may have a problem here.

I just need to know what it is supposed to do, normally , so I can trouble shoot a drain I think I have.

I assume all pretty much the same, I just forgot how mine use to work.

Thanks!

TripleJ · October 07, 2015, 06:10 PM

Im adding my configuration here, just to muddy the waters. There is apparently more than one step control design.

If my step switch is off, the steps will not move under any circumstances, neither up nor down. I can drive away down the road and the steps will stay in position.

If my step switch is on, they will go up or down according to a pushbutton switch in the screen door jamb. Steps down when the door opens, steps up when the door is closed. Obviously if I drive away, the door will be closed so the steps will be stowed up.

My step light doesn't work as far as I know, so I dunno when it is suppose to be on or off.

ClydesdaleKevin · October 07, 2015, 06:21 PM

I'm right there with Triple. My steps work the same way, depending on the switch position...and the light never worked, so I don't know when it is supposed to be on or not. I'm thinking of rewiring it to the porch light switch, since it makes more sense to me to work off that switch for night time, rather than the position of the steps.

Kev

joanfenn · October 07, 2015, 06:28 PM

Ok I don't have a HR but my step has the light underneath that will come on when the screen door opens and step comes down.And will go back off when the door closes and the step retracts. When the step is in the locked position and light doesn't function. W%

Rickf1985 · October 07, 2015, 06:40 PM

If the switch is off the light will stay out. Otherwise your batteries would go dead in a day or two. I leave my steps out the whole time it is parked. Now, if the switch is on and the door is opened and left open the steps will stay out and the light will stay on. My steps do not work off of the screen door so if the screen door is closed the steps stay out. There is a button in the frame for the actuator. Kevin, the Purple wire on the controller is to tie into the porch light. I do not remember the whole conversation I had with them but I do have the diagram. I will look at it and see if it is the same one we have on here, if not I will get it sent to Mark.

HandyDan · October 07, 2015, 06:41 PM

On my 1984 HR Imperial it works just like Ingfish has described. There are two switches on the door; one for the steps and one for the lights. As long as the door is open the light under the step and over the door come on. Once the door is closed the lights go out. Makes no difference if the steps are in or out.

Rickf1985 · October 07, 2015, 06:45 PM

I have a Kwikee Step manual with a LOT more info than the one we have here, I think I got it from the folks at Powergear US. I can tell you that if you have any questions about the steps they are the ones to call. Very knowledgeable and helpful. They did tell me there have been a couple upgrades in controllers but they all should do the same thing. I will get in touch with Mark and get a copy of this manual to him.

DRMousseau · October 07, 2015, 09:33 PM

mmmmm,....

I jus dropped mine to trouble-shoot. Jumped power to it, and motor seems good,.... but the ugly sound!!! Nothing happened but horrible grinding noises. Skipped any further trouble-shooting on the wiring for now. Dropped the unit, and disassembled gearbox.

Seems the big circular gear has shattered into about 2 dozen pieces!!! It's not a semi-circular one like Kwikee, couldn't be THAT easy.

Thought I'd temporally use the simple one from the ol' Winnebago, hoping I might locate parts. But that one in the ol' Winnebago seems to be WELDED PERMANANTLY to the frame!!!! And damn good too!!! UGH!!!

lngfish · October 08, 2015, 07:02 AM

Thanks to all,

I got a good refresher from Handy Dan and Rick here especially and others.

It is coming back clearer now.

I do like the idea, as Handy Dan's and mine do, the steps re track automatically, if you start the engine and you forgot to pull them up. I've forgotten to a few times.

I have what I need to go now and try to find out why my step light is not working.

Makes sense Rick the light goes out when switch is off after steps are out.

Steve

lngfish · October 08, 2015, 07:13 AM

On mine:

(1) magnetic switch operated by screen door operates steps Kwikee

(1) Plastic PB switch operated by screen door operates light over entrance inside. At level panel.

(1) Separate Switch on wall, for porch light. Second Wall Switch IN

lngfish · October 08, 2015, 07:25 AM

I take it all power to steps is from the Engine Battery, correct?

There have been so many times I've not turned this switch off and the engine battery dies.

From what Rick says it is the Brain and the Light draining the engine battery I guess.

Rickf1985 · October 08, 2015, 09:43 AM

They are supposed to be wired to the house batteries, mine are. That does not mean that every manufacturer did so or (more likely) some previous owner may have changed it. Everything that has to do with the coach is going to be on the house batteries so that you are able to start the vehicle regardless of whether you killed the house batteries or not.

HandyDan · October 08, 2015, 11:57 AM

Mine is on the engine battery. My converter does not charge the engine battery, so if that battery gets low, the steps don't work well.

fasteddie313 · October 08, 2015, 03:07 PM

Mine iirc..

If the wall switch is on the light is on, if the wall switch is off the light is off.. True for any stair/door position..

If you turn the wall switch off the stairs stay where they are regardless of door button position and the light is off..

With the wall switch on the stairs open/close with the door every time it opens/closes.. Door open steps down, door closed steps up, light stays on all the time.

My stairs have 2 motors and a "brain" box, likely just some relays in there.. The brain box also has a sensing wire for engine ignition key on, I do not notice any difference in operation with the key on or off..

My stairs worked well for a while, after I whacked the motors they started working, they worked for days and then the right motor froze up solid for some reason. Electricity does not move the motor in either direction, dead solid doesn't move.. I believe either the motor or gearbox is jammed up somehow.. Further whacking and prying trying to get this motor/gearbox to move has not worked, I think I have to drop the whole steps mechanism to get the motor off and get inside its gearbox, I think 50/50 its the gearbox or the motor itself..

Oh yes, it is on the coach battery..

Rickf1985 · October 08, 2015, 09:22 PM

I just uploaded the large manual I have to the gallery.............................. I think. W% W% W% i?? i?? i?? I am not real good at that stuff. I asked Mark to let me know if it got there and I am sure he will add it to the manuals section. If you know where to look tonight I believe it is there somewhere.

Oz · October 08, 2015, 09:51 PM

Thanks a bunch, Rick!

A little help, here it is:
http://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php?action=mgallery;sa=item;id=7581

lngfish · October 09, 2015, 05:59 AM

Thanks Rick and Oz,

I will DL it later since net slow here.

Great to have some information on it!

Yesterday I looked at mine. My under step light has a BLACK wire going to it. SUPPLY

Then this under step light is Grounded locally.

My engine battery runs my steps, it had a bad cell, so I 1st got new battery yesterday.

Steps were not pulling up 100% with one BAD CELL on engine battery.

They pulled up maybe 90% but not my light problem, but wonder if it screwed the brain?

Back to steps:

1. HUGE WHITE WIRE TO/ FROM WALL SWITCH-MAIN POWER
2. (2) Plugs and Jacks under steps, changing colors, wire size as you mentioned.
3. (1) Purple wire coming out of Black Brain Box, Looks like FACTORY cut/taped at Factory, ie "not used ever "
4. No voltage at Black Wire out of Brain Box nor Purple with switch ON and steps out. darn.
5. This RV owned by 2 ministers, doubt it has been hacked or changed. I'm 3rd owner, not minister.

What I did:

1. Not voltage at Purple wire. Bummer wanted to use it since I read it is for a light.

What I Modded Recenlty:

1. I added 2 of these lights, BELOW LINK to this step circuit about 6 months ago since the existing fixture/bulb is tiny and not much light and I want light directly on steps. These strips will light up the steps nicely.

This circuit was fine till recently but these new STEP LED STRIPS have tiny little square boxes that power THEM, tiny transformers? Size about half as big of an ice cube. Plastic and hum a lil. Tiny hummmmmmmmmmmm.

I'm not sure if I pulled too much current, I don't think I did as the lights are modern thingies.(LEDs?)

They worked fine for half a year anyway and I liked them ALLOT, now they don't work nor does the OEM one, incandescent (push in bulb style).

If anybody gets these on sale get one per step. They sort of GLOW, and one at top will not light up bottom step.

http://www.adventurerv.net/camco-dpi-camper-step-light-p-2252.html

Anyway, more to check once I get the manual on steps.

With new engine battery step now WORK OK, UP and DOWN OK, Just step lights not working but they worked for months.

What to do?:

I'm thinking of finding a wire before the Brain, that has no power when switch is OFF, and just getting Power from it and not getting power for step lights from the Brain at all.

Hate to change the Brain to get step lights back.

Might need to add a inline fuse is all if I did this since wiring is tiny.

Thoughts?

Steve

Rickf1985 · October 09, 2015, 07:07 AM

Check that manual I sent and especially call them. This is almost exactly the same problem I was having and they talked me through the entire wiring diagram.

lngfish · October 09, 2015, 08:35 AM

Gothca

lngfish · October 09, 2015, 03:44 PM

I think Kwikee was taken over as far as customer support so I called:

Lipper Components
574-537-8900

Spoke to Shawn. He suggested since only lights not working to order a Kwikee 905312 Magnetic Switch. (He thinks module failed on light output. Make sense since purple wired dead too)

This is a switch that sticks to steps or motor assembly, either. Sort of an upgrade to show step position on DASH but I'm not doing that.

STEP UP OR DOWN INDICATOR ON DASH

The dash Kit is another number, it is just a bulb. All I need it the magnetic proximity switch, above part number.
One half of rectangular switch body is fixed, stickied-in-place, and other half moves, also stickied-in-place You set them 1/4 gap apart at start when steps UP.

U affix to the steps themselves or up under to the step mechanism, arms knuckles area. Where ever it will work.

Then I will get voltage off WHITE wire at 4-way Plug.

An old timer there suggested, not Shawn, not JUST taking voltage off WHITE wire as you may open DOOR and not turn on the Switch or something like that. He knows more and said using this Magnetic Switch is safer so I ordered it.

I will post link to it, I asked Shawn if link was available.

Steve

I called same number and order one Switch $17 + UPS postage.

lngfish · October 10, 2015, 05:59 AM

I uploaded the PDF file of the Dash Indicator Kit.

I believe it has a indicator part for the dash and the switch part I needed for the steps to bypass the need for the brain to run the bulbs, since its output failed.

http://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php?action=mgallery;sa=item;id=7582

I may have done the upload twice, sorry about that mistake. Please delete one.

The sketch shows you can put the switch on the steps or on the actuator.

Seems to me easier to put on the steps but I will have to eye ball it 1st.

I'm glad I did not have to buy the entire kit and just was able to by the switch.

Kit: 909003 (Dash Bulb and Switch)
Switch (Part of Kit) 905312

Thanks guys!

The white wire is the power wire at the 4-way plug. I'll tee into it and fuse it and run power through this Magnetic Switch to supply lights under steps.

I have the OEM light and the 2 glow strips. I will check my amps 1st.

I'll still be getting power from the Engine battery but I think I'll leave it like this as I have a Circuit Breaker 20A style fuse, opens thermally, up FRONT in a pigtail fuse holder, easy to get to, that Parallels the Engine Battery to the Coach Battery; up where you check the oil. It also keeps engine battery charged when parked and plugged in. My Converter charger is a 4 stage one so supposed to be good for batteries.

Once my engine alternator failed and this set-up got me down the road.

That is why I had it and used it one time.

I understand the all batteries will go down together. This is all I have to remember on it.

But I'm always plugged IN.

Other than this one drawback the benefits to me out weigh this ONE down fall unless it is unsafe or something else that I am not aware of.

Let me know if you know of any.

Steve

lngfish · October 11, 2015, 05:45 AM

Here is a good picture of the one I ordered from Lipper. I did not get it on Ebay. Others sell it on Ebay however.

They have (2) Styles. The 905312 if the Heavy Duty one.

I think the 323 is the miniature one less for less duty.

It looks ample by size of wires to run my on OEM little bulb and my (2) Glow Strips that I like allot.

Picture is down at bottom of add.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Kwikee-Heavy-Duty-Rectangular-Magnetic-Switch-905312000-/331669161976?hash=item4d3905c7f8

Steve

lngfish · October 12, 2015, 10:19 AM

I checked some voltages and currents yesterday to see what fried the circuit in the brain to now allow it to put out voltage for the under step light.

One of the Glow Strip Transformers was sucking 9 amps.

The good one, since I have 2 Glow Strips, was only using 0.4 amps.

I should of used a fuse. Darn it.

Anyway, a fuse will be installed when I put in Magnetic Switch and new fuse and etc.

I'll replace bad Glow Strip. I asked for exchange.

I ordered a Gen Switch ( from Tech-Edge) which is OFF/ON and has a tiny Green LED ($8)and I will mount it in a spare square hole in I-series level panel front I just installed and use this switch to turn on and off the light system.

With the Green LED I will know the lights will come on when the steps go out, all thing working, and I will be able to turn the lights off also or leave them on. This is better than how it was. You have control this way.

The tag will say "Step Lights Ready" since they will ON or OFF with Green LED on, but will be ready to come on should the door be opened and the steps go OUT.

And you will know this before you exit.

I hate going out and no lights on step.

Bummer.

We all do!

Steve

PS I'm getting my power from Level panel for these lights since spare wire up there in panel and it goes in storage cabinet on right side of steps from outside. My Freshwater old level system had one extra conductor that I did not need with the new I series but have to keep amps low. Drilled hole on left side of storage cabinet outside to get to right of steps where this wire runs.Used some loom over wire. Need to check AWG of wire think it is 22 AWG. 1 amp max. It will be close but will work.