Brake & Running Lights don't work

[TrixTret1]

Sent: 8/24/2005 7:13 PM

Hello,

Can anyone help me with my running lights problem?  I took my MaddieBago to get inspected and was told that the brake lights and running lights do not work.  The turn signals and lights work.  My friend did fix the brake lights but could not figure how to get the running lights working.  Any help would be greatly appreciated or maybe even a wiring diagram.

Thanks,
Brenda




From: denison
Sent: 8/24/2005 9:04 PM

You say your turn signals and lights work â€" and I presume you mean the headlamps. As far as I can tell by my 1975 wiring diagram, your “running lights”, which would share the brake lamp housings in back and the turn-signal housings in the front, are on the same circuit as your clearance lights â€" those lights the top front and rear of the RV.
The running-lights are controlled (indirectly) by the first position of the headlamp switch. A purple wire (it was purple in 1975 anyway) comes from the headlamp switch and goes to a “presence lamp relay”, probably located under the dash close to the headlamp switch. I think the relay would be much smaller than a pack of cigarettes, maybe about the size of a pack of chewing gum. It would be what turns on the “running lamps” and clearance lamps when you pull the headlamp switch out. The relay could be bad, or just as likely, it could just be loose and no longer getting grounded. It is fed from the fuse on the fuse box labelled RUN LPS. This 20 amp fuse should have 12 volts connected to it all the time, not just when the ignition is switched on.
It could also be a bad headlamp switch â€" though that isnt the most likely. It could be a bad or dirty connector. There is a wiring harness connector, probably also located more or less inaccessibly under the dashboard, with 4 or 5 wires on each of the two sides of the connection. If you can find this, wiggle it, or even pull it apart carefully, and push it firmly back together. The wire from the presence lamp relay running to that wiring harness connector was brown (in 1975), and the wire from the fuse labelled RUN LPS running to the presence lamp relay was dark green.
Things like the “presence lamp relay” are the reason I always carry a small mirror in my tool box. You might also need a really good light, such as a utility light with a long cord on it. I have learned how to take my drivers seat out, which makes working under the dashboard ‘easier’. Though its still a chore!
It is possible the fuse blew because of a momentary short somewhere in the lamp circuit, such as from a chafed wire running against a sharp piece of metal. It could also be a melted wire in the wiring bundle that runs along the drivers side of the engine.
If the presence lamp relay is working and has 12 volts coming out of it on the brown wire, you might have a broken wire somewhere. In this case you could run another wire, of 18 gauge or 16 gauge, to any of the running lamp connections on the front of the vehicle. That would supply 12 volts to all of the other running lamps too.
By the way; the wiring diagram I have was made by Dodge, and shows all of the wiring that was supplied by Dodge with the bare running chassis. It doesn’t ANY of the wiring that Winnebago added when they built the coach. And the wiring diagrams that came originally with the Winnebagos don’t have enough detail to be useful to me at all. This was apparently typical of most motorhome makers.
Example; some motorhomes had a switch whose purpose was to let you “blink” the clearance lights, the way the truckers do. If you have such a switch, it would be another location for a bad connection or dirty switch. But that switch would not appear in the Dodge motor home chassis wiring diagram.
If you want to see the wiring diagram I am looking at, go to mytravco.com. It’s a slow loading site. On the home page, click on the link for “manuals and brochures”. On that page, slide down till you see the link for “Wiring Schematic” near the bottom of the page. Again, it takes a while to load, but it’s about the best diagram for the Dodge chassis wiring. My grateful thanks to the Travco site for maintaining it.

Good luck, and let us know how it goes.



From: TrixTret1
Sent: 8/24/2005 11:01 PM

Denison,

Thank you so much for all the time you spent answering my question.  It was truly fantastic of you and I owes ya.  Have printed what you wrote.  Also, I do have the additional "blink" switch, and will check that out this weekend.  When John was in San Antonio last year I was sure he had the "blink" working.   I will also go to the site you mentioned for the wiring diagram.

Thanks again,

Brenda



From: ClydesdaleKevin
Sent: 8/25/2005 2:08 PM

I'm also having running light issues, which at first I thought was a bad ground at the lights.  They worked when I pulled out of NC with all new lights, but now they don't.  What puzzles me is that at first, all lights worked...good to go!

A week later, the running lights were out, but the tail lights running lights were a go, the brake and signal lights worked in the back, and the backup lights worked.

So far, the headlights and front signal/marker lights still work great.

Now, the rear tail light markers are out along with every single upper marker light (all around the coach, front to back), but the signal lights, brake lights, and backup lights are still a go.

They all share a common ground (the aluminum skin), so its not a ground issue.

Since from the posts I'm assuming that any relays used are tied to both the rear AND front marker lights, AND the upper marker lights, its my guess that I have a broken/corroded voltage wire/wires going to the rear markers and upper markers.  Ah the joys of electical troubleshooting on a 35 year old neglected rig!...lol

I'll keep y'all posted as to what I find out.  I'm waiting for a cool day and motivation to troubleshoot and repair not only THIS issue, but also my voltage fluctuation gnomes...lmao.

Kev



From: denison
Sent: 8/25/2005 9:28 PM

TrixTret1: The wife and I plan to be driving south about 10th November in our Winnebago, and might pass through San Antonio. If you want, you could send us your email, so we could check on the progress of your Winny. We have relatives in Ft.Worth, Austin, and San Antonio that we might be visiting as we go south. It is also possible we would be driving down along the coast, from Galveston past Port LaVaca, Port Aransas, inland to Kingsville and on to Harlingen. Our current plan is to be in the Rio Grande valley for several months.



From: TrixTret1
Sent: 8/26/2005 6:22 AM

Kev,  Thanks and I will stay tuned for any info you find out.  Sounds like my same problem.  I was sure all mine were working until I went for the inspection.

Denison, Would be happy to meet you and your wife.  email is **(omit)freaken_trix@sbcglobal.net.  That sounds like a fantastic trip.  Wintering in the Rio Grande Valley.  You all are more than welcome to stay here also and visit as I have plenty of room.  Email me and I will supply my telephone numbers so yall can contact me.

Thanks again,

Brenda



From: denison
Sent: 8/26/2005 7:04 AM

There could have been one circuit "feed" for all of the marker lights, or a separate feed for the upper marker lights, or separate feeds for the upper rear, or whatever. Probably the wires to the lights had to be run before they completed each section of the coach structure. There might not have been a relay - if Futura chose a headlamp switch with a heavy-duty rating it would not have been needed.
Or a circuit could have been hastily re-wired by a previous owner to get home from a vacation, then forgotten. I never do stuff like that.......not that I can remember anyway. So even if you had a Futura wiring diagram, you might still have to explore/guess. Good luck!

Plenty of times while working around the motorhome I have found wiring that was in poor condition - chafing on the frame, squashed between metal surfaces, cable supports fallen away, that kind of thing.