413 Steam/overheat? smoke from valve covers

[DivinylRecords]

I know theres a couple threads on this but, ive been working on our 73 travco which has a 413 in it basically on my own with the manual i bought on here and its been fun, but i have no mechanical backround and am at times beyond frustrated.  So recently i put in a new alternator and everything was going well finally getting my battery charged, but since then, it started overheating regularly, by reccomendation from a friend he said take the thermostat out and see if it flows, he told me it wasnt that necessary. so i took out the thermostat which was basically shredded and clogging up the passage. i tried to clean out upper hose but the iron housing had holes in it so i bought a new upper hose, when i put the new one on, its been leaking and everytime i drive even for ten minutes it lets steam out and its a loud obnoxious noise, So the next day i took out the bottom hose and it had this wire spring throughout the entire thing it was covered in rust and some debris but nothing as bad as the top one.  I reattached it and we tried to seal the housing on the upper part with gasket sealer and even tried to soder up some of the holes.   same thing today only worse, the valve covers are smoking now like burning oil, and its coming from inside.  when it drives now the trans seems to have trouble shifting and it runs the rpms really high before shifting to what i think is 2nd or 3rd...today i added a bunch of water because it seemed like tthere wasnt enough. but it ended up leaking from the bottom hose attachment, and although the engine was boiling hot the coolant that came out of there was luke warm?  should i be going to get my water pump rebuilt, put back on a new thermostat, because there is not water pumps available for the 413 as i understand it... anyways im scared to drive it anywhere becaues i dont want to do permanent damage but it just shocks me that after changing this alternator this problem has arised.  anyone in san diego area that can offfer help too would be much appreciated. 

[DivinylRecords]

I will also add that the radiator cap for the "reserve" is nearly impossible to get at and the hose from that just hangs offf the side of the radiator,, there is a plastic resovoir in the front of the radiator that i assumed replaced the other one and is connected to the radiator cap.  I believe the cap we have on there says 16psi and i havent replaced it maybe that could be part of the problem too?

[Rickf1985]

Ok, Let's start from the beginning. You do need a thermostat. It not only regulates the temperature of the engine but it also regulates te speed that the coolant flows through the radiator. If the water pump is good then it is possible to flow water through the radiator so fast that it does not have a chance to cool and that alone can cause over heating. Now you say this started right after you replaced the alternator, did you get the fan belts tight enough? If the thermostat housing has holes in it it needs to be replaced, you cannot continue to drive around with a coolant leak. If that spring in the lower hose is very rusted then replace the hose, the spring is there to keep the hose from collapsing. If you are getting the engine hot enough for the valve covers to start smoking then you are doing damage!! STOP driving it until you get the coolant leaks under control. Replace the thermostat with a new and correct one.  Replace both hoses and seal the ends with Permatex aviation sealant. The 16lb. cap is standard but for a vehicle that old you could drop down to a 12 if you continue to have coolant leak issues. Do not be surprised if you have to replace the valve cover gaskets because they are probably cooked.

If you want to check the operation of the water pump then leave the top hose disconnected from the radiator and start the engine and there should be water flowing from the hose. put a garden hose in the radiator to replace the water that is being lost. If you rev the engine then a LOT of water should come out of that hose, It is not very common for a pump to fail in that way, they usually leak.

Do you have a radiator cap on the radiator in addition to the one on the reservoir? The reason I ask is you have to be sure you get the engine as full as possible with coolant before starting and warming or it will overheat and doing it through just the reservoir will not do it. If you do not have a cap on the radiator you will need to take the upper hose off (cold engine) and fill it through there till full and then put that hose on and then fill the reservoir.

[DaveVA78Chieftain]

Both the 413 and 440 require a skirted thermostat (Mr. Gasket P/N 4367). 

Please refer to thread: http://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php/topic,6150.msg24605.html#msg24605


[smg id=1330]

[DivinylRecords]

Thanks for your reply, I replaced the upper hose, and gasket it seems as though after looking at that picture of the thermostats autozone gave me the wrong one, and also i am having trouble finding the water "outlet" that has holes in it to have the right size autozone and oreilly can only find a much smaller one... after getting what i thought was all sealed up it   wasnt leaking until now what looks like behind the fan (what is connected to the water pump, is that called a fan clutch?.  the plastic resevoir on the front is cracked and im replacing in the morning along with trying to get the correct thermostat.  The problem is I live in my motorhome and with the laws in san diego we have to move it everynight so i have no choice but to move it a little bit ive been trying to drive as little as possible, i havent had any smoke from the valve covers just the steam coming from the leak.  again i  really appreciate the advice, should I be going to the local radiator shop or a rebuilder of the water pump?   

[DivinylRecords]

I also replaced the radiator cap, the one that was on it was a 13psi  one so thats the one i bought, any other suggestions are greatly appreciated

[LJ-TJ]

Slow down a tad. Wait and get the proper thermostat. Check the oil. Follow Ricks instructions very systematically and you'll be good. Sounds like your over thinking things and getting overwhelmed  and getting away a head of yourself and thinking up problems that may not exist. Slow down a tad. Hm?

[Rickf1985]

If you are not driving it very far then leave the radiator cap on the first notch so it is loose. That way it will not build up pressure and push water out of a lot of those leaks. If water is coming out behind the fan then the water pump will need to be replaced. There are a couple different water pumps for that model and I am not the expert on them but I am sure Dave will jump in with that info.

[DaveVA78Chieftain]

You should need the 5/8" pilot shaft


Dodge P/N 3420225

NAPA WP 58197

EBAY -
Dodge P/N 3420225

CARDONE Rebuilder

[classicrockfanatic]

if" water "outlet" that has holes in it" means the water neck. I had no luck purchasing one, ended up machining my own. here's a pic for reference

[CapnDirk]

Dude!  If you can do that sort of stuff, you just made a lot of friends 

[LJ-TJ]

  D:oH! WOW!

[Rickf1985]

Gotta love a guy with a Bridgeport in his garage!

[classicrockfanatic]

Unfortunately there's no heavy machinery in my garage, but I am a machinist, and can whip up parts off the clock. I'd caution anyone away from restoring something, unless they have access to a machine shop.

[legomybago]

Nice thick flange too

[DivinylRecords]

The New Thermostat just arrived today- going to change it out tommorow, changing all hoses too, A couple weeks back I changed the Fan Clutch too, and put some spacers on the radiator as it was really close to the fan.  I havent had overheating problems but I havent driven it very far still dealing with front end issue.  thanks for all input