Dodge 413 cam replacement problems

[Blakradish]

Hey Folks,
I have a 1971 Winnebego Indian running a 413 Rb. I wanted to add a bit of horsepower and low end torque, so I could possibly tow my VW GTI, or a small trailer with a motorcycle. I purchased a CompCams cam kit with Suggested cam, springs, lifters, etc, purchased new pushrods, hei distributor, Edelbrock carb and manifold, plugs, wires, transmission cooler, and gauges for everything.
I'm not a mechanic, so I brought it to one, and he says he can't get the distributor gears to mesh with the camshaft /oilpump gears. He said its almost as if it was running in reverse.
Any feedback would be a great help. I'm totally stuck here.
Thanks

[Rickf1985]

Your best coarse of action is to call Comp cams. They supplied all of the parts and they would know better than any of us what the problem is. The Dodge distributor should not have a gear on it, the distributor has a flat on the end of the shaft that fits in a notch in the oil pump drive. If the distributor has a gear then it may be a GM distributor. Call Comp.

[Blakradish]

I've already called comp cams, and they said the cam I ordered was the correct cam for the application I described. They said it's the same cam they use in all of the big block Chrysler engines that want a lot of low end torque.

[DaveVA78Chieftain]

What distributor did you buy? mfg & P/N
The distributor itself does not have gears on it.  There is a intermediate shaft that is below the distributor that engages the cam and oil pump.  Distributor shaft slides into the gear end
A Marine setup may have reverse gearing.



Video of how it goes together.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ki9-OxgT1Z4

[Rickf1985]

Assuming you were running this engine before I would think you have the correct intermediate shaft in there along with the correct starter. Otherwise you would have had an engine running in reverse and I cannot even begin to guess what that would have done to the transmission. And if the camshaft is in and that intermediate shaft is in than those parts are right and the distributor is the problem.

[nalambright]

Some earlier 413-1 engines have a geardrive for the camshaft instead of the usual timing chain. The geardrive causes the cam to run backwards. You can replace the geardrive with a normal timing chain, and replace the intermediate shaft and your new cam should work. The backwards cam has a different oil pump drive gear to keep thrust running the right direction.

[Blakradish]

Thanks Nalambright, I think you hit the nail...
This is exactly what my mechanic was wondering about.
I think he'll be very happy to hear this.
Thanks again Nalambright.
If anyone can think of anything else that I might run into, or watch, maybe you have helpful hints? ???





The distributor is a summit racing, "ready to run", part #SUM-850420. Edelbrock Carb-EDL1411

[Rickf1985]

Sounds like there is a lot more to the story than what you told us then. That is why it is so hard to diagnose things on the internet. It seems easy to the person asking the questions because they have the engine in front of them but they do not realize that the people they are asking are totally in the dark and are depending on a completely accurate and complete description of the issue so they can give an accurate diagnosis.

You went from a stock replacement to a marine gear drive setup. All we were told was the distributor did not fit when it appears that it is the cam that is the problem.

In any case you have found the right person to help. Hopefully you get it straightened out.

[Blakradish]

I appreciate everyones input, Thanks.
Rick1985, I'm not nearly engine savvy enough to properly explain much of anything in that regard. I was just passing along the problems my mechanic was having. Apparently he didn't compare the the old distributor to the new (which would be the first thing I'd do), if he had, he would have seen at least part of the issue...hopefully.
I should have researched a little better (Including getting to this forum first), and maybe taken "The Scowling Brick" to a Mopar guy. My mechanic was honest, saying he hasn't worked on many old Dodge engines, I was surprised to find out how hard it is to find someone to work on these old motorhomes. Even the speed shops who do mostly Mopar wouldn't touch her, and RV shops...forget about it.
I sent him the You Tube link Dave posted, as well as Nalambright's post, and this morning he texted me that he ordered the parts to do the job. Again, thanks to everyone who contributed.

[Rickf1985]

You picked a good compliment of parts and that should make it run fantastic. I did not notice if you got headers but long tube headers will really cap off the setup. Dodge, Ford, Chevy, International, Studebaker. They are all engines and they all run the same way and on the same principle. Taking any one of them apart is no different than the other. I am not sure what Nalambright is talking about with the gears and reversed cam, I never saw one set up that way. I have seen plenty of reverse rotation engines and the only thing different from a standard rotation would be the oil pump. That is usually addressed with the cam gear on cams that have it or the oil pump drive where that is applicable.

[nalambright]

Motorhome/HD truck/industrial 413's got the heavy duty geardrive setup. See the attached photo. At some  point they went back to a chain before production ceased in 1972 and 440's replaced them. The geardrive used a special cam and intermediate shaft. The distributor was the same, but the firing order was different. Make sure your guy is using a timing chain, and standard intermediate shaft, and you are good to go.

[Rickf1985]

Sir, You only have 10 posts but by I think the third one I had figured out that you were really into the old and strange Dodge stuff and every post since then has been informative. I have to say I have never seen one of those setups in person. I have heard about them but never saw one. Is there a year range that this setup was in?

[nalambright]

The shop manual is ambiguous on the year range. My '72 413 has a chain, but it was supposedly rebuilt before I bought it. I'm inclined to believe it because the main bearings are .010 under.

[Oz]

Any update on this?

[Blakradish]

Update as of 11/5/17


After several weeks of messing with different cams the hillbilly mechanic finally figured it out. It was the intermediate shaft that was screwing him up. He finally settled on the Comp Cam that I had originally purchased.
So far, I've put a couple hundred miles on the engine and it's running great. I'm about to take my first big trip, and I really hope everything comes off relatively smoothly. I expect some trouble, but I hope it's manageable.
I've spent a lot of money on this ride. New water tank, pump, 2 fantastic fans, Girard tankless water heater, new tires and rims all around, back-up cam, new antenna/tv/speakers, new bed and bedding, transmission cooler, new cam, new Edelbrock carb and intake, a ready to run electronic ignition, starter, re-cored the radiator, labor, etc.
I want to thank everybody for their help, it really proved invaluable.

[M & J]

Ssfe tavels, good luck - keep us posted.

[CapnDirk]

Blakradish:


Keep us posted!  So many of us work so hard on these, that it's nice to know when someone gets the reward (which is why we work so hard on them).




"May the sun be in your eyes and the wind at your back"