Water Pump Availability for 1971 413-1?

Started by Dodgy71, March 02, 2016, 05:40 PM

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Dodgy71

March 02, 2016, 05:40 PM
 Anyone know where I might find a water pump for a 1971 413-1, and what the part# would be? I was recently told that they are no longer available, new, from anyone, but thought I'd ask.
If no one knows of a source for a new one, do you know of a source for a rebuilt one?

Note: I have also been told that the pump for the 413-1 is not the same as the one for the 440-3.

M & J

#1
March 02, 2016, 06:32 PM
Use the search feature at the upper right of the forums. There is a thread not that old that discusses this.
M & J

Dodgy71

#2
March 02, 2016, 07:02 PM
OK. From a previous ClassicWinnebagos thread, it seems that the Dodge P/N 3420225 should be correct for the 1971 413-1, as the pump's mounting flange has 5 holes, and it has the grease fitting.
  Still looking for sources.

[attachment deleted by admin]

hemi354az

#3
March 02, 2016, 09:05 PM
There are several 413-1 water pumps on E-bay at this time. The HT361 is the same pump as used on the HT413 (and 413-1). It must have 5 (five) mount bolts. But, but, but . . . you must determine if YOUR water pump fan/pulley flange has a small 5/8" pilot or the large 1-1/8" pilot. All the rest of the pump is common except the pilot. Obviously you need the same size as the one you now have.


There is usually at least one auto/truck water pump re-builder in many BIG Cities. Remember the Yellow Pages ? Let your fingers do the walking.
Press ON ! Lou FMC #120

legomybago

#5
March 03, 2016, 10:13 AM
Anyone looking for a 413 water pump? Now's a good time to buy! :)ThmbUp
Never get crap happy with a slap happy pappy

Dodgy71

#6
March 29, 2016, 07:06 PM
Well, I missed the one on Ebay (I need the one with the 5/8" fan pilot).  Looked elsewhere but haven't found the correct one. Since mine had not failed (bearings or seal), I looked into having my original rebuilt (for reliability, as it is 45 yrs old). So far, it seems that I will be looking at about $200 to have mine rebuilt...
  Anyone have a favorite water pump rebuilder?  I am in SoCal.

RANGERRICK

#7
March 29, 2016, 08:37 PM
I may have a water pump,i will look tomorrow.

legomybago

#8
March 30, 2016, 11:32 AM
I use this one: Tony has a good reputation. He just rebuilt my 1-off double bearing FMC 440 water pump.
http://water-pump-rebuilders.com/
Never get crap happy with a slap happy pappy

Dodgy71

#9
March 30, 2016, 01:22 PM
Ranger: I'd be thrilled if you happen to have one that you are willing to sell.
Legomybago: Thanks for the rebuilder link. I'll get a quote from them also.
Hemi354AZ: Do you happen to know if the pump with the larger 1-1/8" pilot, could have the hub pressed off and the hub with a 5/8" pilot pressed on?  If all else is the same, this would seem possible.

hemi354az

#10
March 30, 2016, 05:58 PM
Sorry Dodgy, 1-1/8 inch big pilot has a bigger 3/4 inch shaft on the fan flange/pulley end.
ALL the impeller ends are the same size 5/8 inch, no matter what impeller (cast 8 vane, cast 10 vane, cast straight 8 and 10 vane, cast swirl vane, stamped (blades bent either way) sheet metal 6 and 8 vane) for 361 car, 361 truck, 361 tank, 383, 400, 413 car, 413 truck, 426 wedge, 426 Hemi, and 440 engines. But anything with the 1-1/8 pilot fan flange has a bigger shaft on that end. All the 5/8 pilots have the same 5/8 shaft for both ends. This applies to 5 bolt and 4 bolt Ma Mopar water pumps.
All the ones with the BIG 1-1/8 pilot have two bearings, but there is the small pilot with two bearings used on the 413 powered Winnies. It is the ONLY application and seems unique to Winnies. Maybe some Travco, or Superior 413 powered Motorhome Owners can comment on what size pilot they have. There have been a couple of 413 WP Rebuild Kits on E-bay, and they also show two different shaft diameters on the Fan Flange end. The 4 bolt two bearing WP used on the 440 engine in a FMC (and NOTHING ELSE THAT ANYONE HAS EVER BEEN ABLE TO FIND) has a large pilot.
I have about 15 (or more !) Ma Mopar water pumps of all applications (even early hemi, and late B/RB Marine ones), and look at others on E-bay all the time hoping to see something different . . . but in 8 years paying attention to this very subject . . . No Joy !


There is a Houston TX Water Pump Re-builder - http://www.waterpumpkit.com/home.html - that several of us FMC Owners have used.
Lou FMC #120 in Aridzona.

legomybago

#11
March 30, 2016, 06:15 PM
Great info Lou. :)ThmbUp
Dodgy, I'd buy one as soon as you can find one, and have one or both rebuilt so you'll have a spare if ever needed on the road. I'm sure that's your plan anyway...
Never get crap happy with a slap happy pappy

hemi354az

#12
March 30, 2016, 06:46 PM
But, but, but . . . why not just buy a new one (and maybe even a spare) ;


http://www.amazon.com/GMB-120-2940-Replacement-Water-Pump/dp/B000C6QY4S   ($67 + ship !)
or
http://www.amazon.com/FMI-20778-Premium-Performance-Water/dp/B00DJ46QV6  ($98 + ship from same Amazon ! Go figure ?)
or
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brand-New-Water-Pump-20778-Replaces-3420225-AW940-43032-120-2940-/131759916362?hash=item1ead80c54a
or
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/gmb-120-2940


5 bolt, two bearing, SMALL PILOT ! They are all over the place . . .


Here are some small pilot 413 truck type WP part numbers:
120-2940
20778
AW940
3420225
43032
Let your Fingers do the walking (for those of you old enough to remember the Yellow Pages, Land Line Telephones, and PAY Phones !)
Press ON ! Lou FMC#120

Dodgy71

#13
March 30, 2016, 08:29 PM
Hemi354AZ:  Thank you for all of the excellent info!  You kept me from buying the one with the 1-1/8" pilot and trying to change the hub!
  How the heck did you find all of those correct looking 5/8" pilot pumps?  What application did you look under?  I have been really struggling with finding these 413-1 parts.
  BTW, my MH is a 1971 Travco and uses the 5 bolt water pump with the 10 blade cast impeller and a 5/8" fan pilot, so Winnies were not the only ones.

Thanks again!

hemi354az

#14
March 30, 2016, 09:16 PM
Ha ! I've been trying to figure out the Ma Mopar pumps ever since I got my FMC POS. That is what led me to other RB engines and other water pumps.
I have changed to a no idler CAR type WP that I can get ANYWHERE on the 440-3(?) in my FMC. But I'm changing to lots of HT413 parts on my 440 short block.
70 dollars American ain't bad for a water pump for an engine that has not been made for 38 years.
Now tell me about your Travco 413 water pump . . . does it have a grease fitting ? The BIG pilot 413 WPs do. But yours is still running after 40+ years, so maybe it was an over-engineered part with a grease fitting. If it ain't broke . . . it does not have enough "features". (I can say that, as I was a Engine Ear in my former life).
It is clear . . . the man that has the PART NUMBERS controls "leisure time" for all of us and our "Antique Road Show".
Old saying, but especially true among old RVers . . . Some things are like polishing a turd. The Harder you rub the duller it gets !
Pump ON ! Lou FMC#120

Dodgy71

#15
March 31, 2016, 02:12 PM
hemi354az,
  My 71 Travco 270 has the 413-1 engine (GT413). The water pump is the 5 hole mounting with 10 blade impeller and 5/8" fan pilot (as you said, it looks like the shaft is 5/8" on both sides), and my original has the grease fitting (see attached pics). From what water pump rebuilders have told me, they replace the bearings with sealed bearings so that the grease fitting becomes superfluous (If you put grease in it, it does nothing).  Also, looks like GMB and others that make new replacement pumps, also have no grease fitting, due to the use of sealed bearings.
With regards to putting HT413 parts on your 440-3, what sorts of parts are you swapping (just curious).
  BTW, I'm an engineer also, but doesn't help me much when comes to prospecting for parts Hm?

hemi354az

#16
March 31, 2016, 03:45 PM
Hey Dodgy,
I just sent you a Message . Please check for it.
Perhaps a New Topic -
What are differences in Chrysler 413 Motorhome engines (if any),
and/or,
What are differences in Chrysler 440 Motorhome engines.


Or "some" Topic heading that would be useful to help know what engine someone has of the MOPAR variety in Winnies, Travcos, Superiors, FMCs, and any other SOBs (including Class Cs) that used the Big Block Chrysler engine. Might even be a "place" to list Part Numbers (and "alternates"), Sources, and item Cost, that are for parts that someone has actually bought, installed, and can vouch that they FIT and FUNCTION, or have some real Chrysler Corp. PUBLISHED data, list, drawing, etc.
There is a lot of "mis-information" floating around out there on the Nets among the MOPAR "car/engine" websites. I'm only interested in how to keep the Motorhomes (my FMC in particular) running and REAL possible improvements to big block Mopar engine Operation, Reliability, Maintainability, and CO$Ts.
Anyone else interested in such a specific TOPIC ? (Jump in here OZ !) Lou FMC#120

M & J

#17
March 31, 2016, 06:02 PM
Some of that may already exist. When Davechieftain returns he has a vast amount of data on the older Dodge chassis coaches. He also has his own website with tons of info.

http://dave78chieftain.com
M & J

RANGERRICK

#18
April 01, 2016, 08:11 AM
Sorry no luck on having one for you.

hemi354az

#19
April 03, 2016, 12:02 AM
 . . . and NAPA has 413 small pilot water pumps with a grease fitting . . . Part # WP58197 for about 65 dollars American.
Pump ON ! Lou FMC#120

Bills 73

#20
June 22, 2018, 08:40 PM
it seems as though the 413 water pumps are no longer available through NAPA.   Do you know of anybody rebuilding them or another  source. Bill

tmsnyder

#21
June 22, 2018, 10:36 PM

tmsnyder

#22
June 22, 2018, 10:38 PM
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