Brake light coming on..

[moonlitcoyote]

With 171 miles to go to reach our destination we are having brake problems again. I noticed over the last couple of days the brake pedal was traveling closer and closer to the floor and not feeling like I was going to stop. When we stopped tonight the brake light on the dash came on when I hit the brakes and stayed on until I let off the brakes. I didnt have much stopping power and am scared to continue without finding out what is going on. We ran into town here and found a shop that would come take a look. The fluid is full and he says the brake pads in the front look good. He also checked for leaks and the master cylinder and he couldnt find anything wrong. He also said the power steering was good because that has something to do with the brakes. I have him coming back early in the morning to pull the wheels and have a better look but I am really afraid he isnt going to find anything wrong. I KNOW my brakes are not working well and I dont know what else to do. Could there be a vacuum leak or something/anything I can check for? I need my brakes yesterday. We are heading to my mother in laws who is 94 and needing a caregiver right away.

[Elandan2]

From the symptoms you've described, it seems like the master cylinder is the culprit.

[Rickf1985]

I have to agree with Rick, If he does not find any leaks at the rear and the master cylinder is full then it is most likely bypassing internally. If you sit still and hold light pressure on the brake will it slowly go to the floor? If so that is a bad master cylinder.

[moonlitcoyote]

What about the hydraboost? The master cylinder is not very old.  We just replaced that last time we had brake problems

[tmsnyder]

That makes me suspect the m/c even more, sometimes new parts don't last very long these days!


I've had to replace a horn relay and a cooling fan clutch recently and they weren't more than a year old each.

[moonlitcoyote]

After much thought and deliberation and the fact that we cannot get a m/c, we have decided to change the brake power boost. We can have one here in the morning. The mechanic has kindly plugged the rig into an outlet here so we have power for the night. Now just have to keep my fingers crossed that it's the correct power boost and that it does get here in the morning.

[Froggy1936]

ML With that reasoning you might as well replace the Spare Tire ,  Same result . Throwing parts at a problem is just wasting money, A decent mechanic should be able to diagnoise what is wrong Without trying new parts !  The Master Cly is more likely the culprit, The only thing I cant figure out is why the brake light on the dash is coming on, This should only show a imbalance in the system between frt and rear caused by a leak or application of em brake ?? ! :angel:Frank

[moonlitcoyote]

LOL Frank, actually we need a spare tire also maybe that WILL help. Seriously though we didnt find anything wrong with the M/C and there are reasons to believe the booster is bad. To replace the m/c at this point I feel is throwing money at it. But if the booster doesnt help then I will have to order a m/c when we get to where we are going we called everyone within 100 miles and we cannot get one.

[Froggy1936]

Thinking more about it if the frt brake portion of the mc is leaking internally ( a scored piston seal)  then the rear portion of the mc would be applying more pressure on the rear system and that would turn on the light , Jacking up one side of the veh so both a frt and a rear wheel are off the ground and applying the brake wile two other people try to turn the suspended wheels would show if only one system is working !Frank

[Rickf1985]

MJ, Franks line of thinking is correct. I know I was leaning towards the booster based on what we had talked about on the phone but I forgot about the brake warning light. That comes on when there is a drop in one side of the brake circuit. In your case the extremely low pedal and almost no brakes would lead me to believe you have lost the front circuit of the master cylinder. This is not something that happens too often while driving, it is usually something that comes from years of sitting with a dry system. But you say it was replaced and as I said, Offshore crap can't be trusted to abide by the normal rules.

[moonlitcoyote]

I am so frustrated I really feel like crying. We cant get a m/c here and we thought we had a booster to put in this morning but it was the wrong one. I cant even begin to imagine how they thought it was the right one. I looked up the part number they had and it doesnt even go on a P-30. So the mechanic put it all back together. He had me look up the torque for the lug nuts. Then he didnt know he had to bleed the booster since he took it off. I told him the instructions for bleeding it were in the box of the one we didnt use so we followed the instructions to bleed the booster. He doesnt know how to bleed the m/c so he decided to just bleed the rear brakes. He doesnt have a wrench to fit the bleed screw on the rear. We have sat here in Boise OK for 2 days and havent managed to fix anything, just made matters worse since now he cant even figure out how to bleed the brakes. I dont know what to do, I know we are going to be charged a fortune and I am not pleased at all. This was the worse shop in all of the USA to end up at.

[Froggy1936]

The rear Bleeders require a special wrench Due to the very small space between the Backing plate and the spring. If there is no appreciable amt of air in the wheel clys the rear system can be bled at the connection of the rubber flex hose . The wrench should be available at any NAPA Store Removing the rear tires helps ! Frank P.S. A correct Master Cly can be ordered overnight from anywhere you can locate one !

[moonlitcoyote]

we bled them when we changed the m/c a few yrs ago and we didnt have a special tool or take off the tires. There is no part store open within 60 miles of here.

There is NO way in the world I would have this man put in a master cylinder at this point. I want to get out of here so badly. oh but he did say he wont charge me for the last 3 hours of trying to figure out how to bleed it. I cant wait until he tries to charge me for taking out and reinstalling the booster. He should have known it was the wrong one before going through taking it out

[TerryH]

There are a few comments I would like to make regarding your so-called mechanic, but I would likely piss someone off. Wouldn't be the first time and likely not the last.
The only thing I can see him not expected to know would be the torque specs for your lug nuts.
Fortunately you have members like Rick and Frank for help - both obviously far more knowledgeable than he whom you are dealing with.
Re payment, a suggestion that is completely reliant on safely being able to brake with the RV as is:
Before you pay tell the goof you want to test drive it. If safety is NOT an issue, keep driving to find someone who knows what they are doing. Do not look back.
My opinion only.
Best wishes MJ et all.

[moonlitcoyote]

Well he had me call around looking for parts, hubby is passing tools and filling the fluid now. I would really like to tell this guy to take a flying leap off a short peir.




edit* you guys cant even imagine what we have gone through here. I am so pissed off I cant even tell it all. So much has been going on, like having me back out of the shop last night with the m/c off. My trailer jack-knifed and the e-brake didnt stop me.

[TerryH]

As an aside, I very seldom use the term 'goof'.
When I do it is the ultimate insult I have.
For what it is worth.

[moonlitcoyote]

He finally got the brakes bled but now the booster/ ps is squealing like a stuck pig. We did the back and forth with the steering wheel then shut it off and push brake pedal 4-5 times but its not getting any better. And we have done that process at least 10 times now. Does anyone know what to do?

[moonlitcoyote]

Well that fiasco is done and over with. The owner of the shop came to me and said, "I think we broke your pump, it is going to cost you about $110 to replace it." At this point my husband asked how much we owe them and there response was, "Basically we want to charge you whatever you want to pay, if you decide you want to pull out of here and not pay anything then thats it" My husband wanted to discuss how many hours the mechanic put into it. My response was very simple, " I'll pay you the $50 for coming to the rv park and we will call it even. The owner wanted to know what I wanted to do about the $110 they owed me, and I just told him I want out of here, here's $50 we are even. SO I had to sign a paper saying I wasnt holding them liable for the broken pump and I left.


What did I learn from all this?? NEVER NEVER stop in a 1 horse town to get repairs done.

[Froggy1936]

Life is a lesson , We keep learning, I do not ever advise driving off without settling up . That is called theft of services, and they can have the police chase you down and arrest you . Better to pay by credit card then dispute the charges and try to make your case. The CC co will back you up esp Am Ex . With repairs you never know what you are going to get from strangers You have to feel them out , If they don't have experience with your veh drive on Slowly  I don't know how they would break a PS pump just making the belt squeel unless they did not stop when the squealing started , If its still turning and the shaft did not break most likely still good ? Find a Chevrolet truck dealer !  Best wishes good luck
Frank

[Rickf1985]

I am pretty sure the problem with the pump is that the proper bleeding procedure was not done on the booster and it foamed the fluid. If the steering works then the pump is good, it should be much quieter this morning once the air has settled out. As long as he thinks he broke the pump and you let him slide on it I seriously doubt he is going to do anything more than forget you were ever there. I REALLY wonder how this guy got his ASE certs!!!! I know people that got Master certification and could not tell you a 1/2 inch wrench from a 7/8 inch wrench. They were book smart and knew all of the answers but not the physical part of it. But even those people would have KNOWN what to do even if they could not have done it themselves. This guy did not know how to bleed brakes, he did not know how to bleed the booster. And the worst part is that all of this info is on the internet these days! If you have any mechanical skills then the answers are there. I am very happy to see he did not try to charge you for all the BS that went on, I really thought he was going to charge you a ton of labor.

[LJ-TJ]

Yep! I was waiting. Figured he was about to stick it to you good. Lauren and I have run into similar situations while on the road and I feel your pain. The silly thing is as I watched these guys I came to the conclusion I new more about my rig than these guys. Fortunately like you I had  guys on this site like Rick,Frank and Dave to fall back on to bail my bum out. What did I learn from these experiences. I picked up all the manuals for my year Winnebago and focused on the 1975 Winnebago. I learned the difference between a 1/2 inch wrench and a 7/16 wrench and went about fixing the rig myself. Actually these old girls are fairly simple and easy to work on. No I don't know anything about a 1974 or a 1976 but I learned with the help of the gang here how to fix my 1975 rig myself which I might add while frustrating at times has been very rewarding. Let me say that I'm very appreciative all the patients and help the lads have been over the years.     

[Elandan2]

Unfortunately it is a sign of our times. "If you can't plug it in, how can you diagnose it" Our rigs were built before the computer age and a mechanic (not a technician) could figure out the problem from the symptoms. Oh, how those days have disappeared!! TJ, you have it right, learn everything you can about your rig and don't worry about anything else. Then, if something should happen on the road, you can gently lead the "technician" to the right conclusion. Rick

[moonlitcoyote]

Well I dont know what happened but the brakes and steering were totally fine for the last 171 miles we had to go. So for now I am going to leave them alone and work on some other very important things like my hot water heater.

[LJ-TJ]

 :)rotflmao :)rotflmao :)rotflmao :)rotflmao A wise man once said"IF IT AIN'T BROKE, DON'T FIX IT."

[Froggy1936]

Jesus took mercy on you and repaired the problem , Frank