Installing multi-stage charger w/Phillips converter

[biggrock1]

Sent: 2/24/2005

HI group!
I have a question regarding the original Phillips converter. Does anyone know how to disconnect the charger portion of the converter. It takes too long to recharge my batteries after the furnace has run all night.

I am going to start using a multi stage charger to charge my batteries but I don't want to disconnect the cables to attach the charger each time. I don't think it is good to have two chargers working at the same time. With the converter charger disconnected, I can attach the multi stage charger permanently to the batt. terminals and then just plug it in when I want to charge the batts.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanx in advance.

[Cooneytoones]

Sent: 2/24/2005

Big rock, I have a charger connected to mine also, theres no need to disconnect the charger portion of the converter. The charge from the converter is small in comparison to the Store bought charger. As long as you don't over charge, you'll be fine with both connected. The converter charger puts about 7 amps, not very effective if your using power and very very slow like you said. Mine has both, I just unplug store bought one when fully charged, or get one with auto shut off.
Timmy

[biggrock1]

Sent: 2/25/2005

Thanx for the info but won't the converter charger continue to overcharge the batts?

[bboat101]

Sent: 2/25/2005

Yes, I would disconnect the charge portion. Especially if you have one of the more modern computerized chargers, it's going to "see" other current flowing to the battery. How will it react? Don't know! Doesn't seem right to have 2 chargers working against each other. Especially since the Phillips has more of a crude charging circuit.

I'm not an electronics person, but I would think you would have to a tech take the Phillips unit apart and disable the charge portion. Power is still going to have to run thru it (and the internal switching relay) when you disconnect your shore power.

Brian

[mightybooboo]

Sent: 2/25/2005

What type multi stage charger and will it always be charging when on shore power?  If so,you wont need the converter at all. Wouldn't you just hook charger to batt, then pull your 12 volts from the batts?

BooBoo

[DanD2Soon]

Sent: 2/25/2005

Big Rock,

I don't believe you'll do any damage by leaving them both connected - in fact - it may be a good thing... Most of our rigs have "mystery" battery drains that occur when they are not in use - I leave mine plugged into the shoreline all winter long and "cooking" the batteries has never been a problem.

No more amperage than the converter puts out, it will just serve as a trickle charger keeping your batteries topped off and ready to go. Even after you use your new 3 stage charger to bring your charge level back towards normal, a long slow charge does a lot to keep batteries fit.

Either way, your increased charging ability is going to create increased acid circulation within the battery (a really good thing) and more spatter/spit outside the battery - a potenial problem only if you don't check & fill the water level more often and keep the acid residue cleaned off the battery. (Easily maintained with a solution of a few tablespoons of baking soda in a cup of water - use an old scrub brush to apply it to the battery top & connections - leave the caps on & make sure not to get any in the cells - and then just rinse it off with the hose.)

Good luck,

DanD

[DanD2Soon]

Sent: 2/25/2005

Hey BooBoo - didn't see you reply "slip" in there while I was composing mine...

If he leaves the "good" charger aboard as permanent equipment and hooks it up the way you describe - He'll be fine without the converter.

If he "might" use the new charger other places
"around the house", he'd be better off to leave the converter alone...

Later,

DanD

[biggrock1]

Sent: 2/25/2005

It's an inexpensive charger that will charge at 30 amps until the batteries are close to being charged and then switch to 10 and then to a trickle charge.  It is not designed to be used full time.

I want to drill a hole under sink to batteries and leave charger in side MH. I will remove alligator clips and and install terminals to slip over batt posts. I will install a switch inside MH or simply plug it in when I want to charge batts. It shuts off when charge is completed. It is digital and seems to work really well. It has a %  and a voltage readout. The converter is the original 1975 issue and is supposed to shut off as well.

[mightybooboo]

Sent: 2/25/2005

I think easiest is just a switch to cut output from converters charger.Don't think leaving the charger portion on would really affect much either with shore power or a genny,but might cut genny efficiency a bit,but willing to bet you have a bog enough genny on-board,if you have one.

I had an issue with my converter making the batteries dry out when hooked to shore power for 3 months at a time.When we put in the solar,it has a smart charger,and parked 3 months the batts are always topped off power wise,and water hardly goes down at all.Smart chargers rock!

Booboo

p.s.  There's a manual for the original Phillips converter in the member area

[Cooneytoones]

Sent: 2/25/2005

BRock.....What you want to do is exactly like I have. I use the store bought charger only once in a while. As long as you monitor, you won't over charge. The converter in the Winnebago like I said only puts in about 14 Volts. It's probably a dual line converter and these are very inefficient at recharging, because it splits the voltage, one for the appliances and the other for batteries (2) so with a max of 14 volts it's gotta do a lot of work to recharge, almost impossible, it winds like a trickle charge..you need more than 12 Volts going in for a long time to over charge. I have a hole in the floor and the charger is under my couch, it's plugged in, when I want to use it I attach the alligator clips to which ever battery I want to charge, set the charge rate and turn the switch on the charger to ON. My other converter ( original ) works fine, but too slow to bring the battery back to life fast enough. Both charging won't hurt a thing, as long as you don't leave it on and forget about it....... get one with an auto shut off (which mine does) in case you do forget...some of us sometimes (like me) suffer from CRS........My Winnebago has been plugged in on a shore line since Oct. 24 hours a day.The converter just maintains the charge in them......Batteries are fine....started up at 17 below zero, after sitting for 2 weeks with out any problems, (was sitting in temps from 0 degrees to 50 degrees. I start it up and let it get to operating temp about every 2 weeks, been working on wiring on and off.  I'll unplug shore line and check batteries shows 12.5 volts on a multimeter...I have not had any battery problems with the way it's hooked up............ Knock On Wood......The chargers won't work against each other, they will work together. You'' just be putting more volts in, so battery will charge up fairly fast. You'll just have to check and experiment with how long it takes your battery to recover to a full charge, just like you said remove the alligator clips when your done, and let the other rigs converter maintain once they are at full charge.
Good Luck....
Timmy

[biggrock1]

Sent: 2/25/2005

Thanx guys. Your info was right on. A friend of mine got in touch with a professional and he said the same thing.

[Slantsixness]

Sent: 5/11/2005

I just got rid of the useless 30Amp Philips converter and opted for a 55amp transformer-less converter with a built in AC panel/charger/genny transfer. no more flicking lights or mystery power drain here!

Tom

[Oz]

Sent: 5/11/2005

Since this is newer technology, does anyone know if this Phillips converter will work with gel batteries?  I've read the info on gels and the info on charging and maintenance charge gave me a headache... literally!  I have 2 gels and want to install them, but frankly, I'm apprehensive because of my lack of understanding. - Sob

[DaveVA78Chieftain]

Sent: 5/11/2005

While you see questions regarding multiple charger issues, about the only problem you hear about is potential alternator damage.  In todays world, you can have the engine alternator, a solar charger, and a converter (geeny running for the AC while driving) all connected concurrently running at the same time.  So, I guess it all depends on the design quality of the charger circuits involved.  What baffels me is how do each of those devices know the true battery state when all are running at the same time?  Only answer I ever got is, well, they just do! 

On later 70's PD converters that have a combined AC breaker/DC fuse panel, the bottom fuse is for the battery charging circuit.  Just pull the fuse to eliminate the charger.

Dave

[DaveVA78Chieftain]

Sent: 5/11/2005

Sob,
I wouldn't use an early Phillips (charger designed for wet cell) with a gel battery.  You will need to migrate over to one of the newer converters.  AND, you will need a lot of help if you do because lots of rewiring.  Newer converters work more like a car alternator.  Also, the start battery may need to be gel cell too (which also means a new engine side charger system) or at least you would have to eliminate any cross connecting from engine to house batteries.  Dodge charging circuit is designed for a wet cell battery not gel.  One of the pricy computerized (programmable) regulators will solve the engine side.

Dave 

[Oz]

Sent: 5/11/2005

"Lots of re-wiring... start battery may need to be gel cell too... new engine side charging system... pricey computerized (programmable)" defilibratoregulator...  I guess that answers my questions for now.

- NotSoEnthusiaticAboutItSob

[Slantsixness]

Sent: 5/11/2005

Actually Sob, it's far less complicated than it appears, but definitely a "NO" on the Philips converter and Gels...

Check my EM...

"We have the technology to rebuild him gentlemen, lets get to work"

Million-dollar-Tom

[Oz]

Sent: 5/11/2005

Thanks... - 50centSob

[biggrock1]

Sent: 5/11/2005

That old Phillips Converter only charges at 4.5 amps, at best at least mine did. I like my new PD con with CW much better. It works better than the batt charger too.

[Derrek]

Sent: 5/14/2005
 

I just got rid of the useless 30Amp Phillips converter and opted for a 55amp transformer-less converter with a built in AC panel/charger/genny transfer. no more flicking lights or mystery power drain here!

Tom

Tom,
If you don't mind me asking...Can you give me some more details on the transformer-less converter... Where did you get it..What brand... Price?  My factory converter has been acting up and is overdue for replacement. Thanks

Derrek

[Sea Hag]

Sent: 5/15/2005

My converter on my 76 chief  had a separate board for the charging circuit . It was fried by the genny putting out 18volts due to improper wiring and engine speed to high . I was able to just simply unplug it from the converter and remove it .

I use a portable charger now for the batts when I run the genny . I'm in control this way , no more over charging or under charging . Sea Hag

[Slantsixness]

Sent: 5/17/2005

My converter and panel is a WFCO8855-AN

When I say "transformer-less, I mean it does not have some 40pound transformer, rather it is what is referred to as a "switching" or "chopper" power supply, usi multiple switching transistors and a relatively small (1pound) transformer that produces some extremely efficient power.

To give you an Idea, Smurfy uses up to 12 lights at one time when they're all on. With the old POS Phillips converter, it would buzz and hum and the lights would flicker constantly, not to mention the Phillips convert would only hold about 10 amps before the voltage dropped down enough to notice the dimness and flicker.

with the WFCO box, all the lights and all the fans runing and, the stereo an headlights on in the rig (dual mode on) this thing doesn't even flinch, and the voltage stays constant at 13.8 minimum. plus the fan in the power supply only stays on for a minute or two at a time to cool it off with that load!

And it charges Gels, lead acid, NiMh, NiCd batteries and even chooses how best to keep them charged! (you cannot hook the lead acid chassis and the Gel coach at the same time. one must be fully charged first, then add the second, or the gel will never charge. just use the MOM switch and you're fine.

Find one! You'll Love it! no more electrical "demons"!!

I found this one at T&M RV (ebay store) out west (It's a quality control pull from a new RV... there's a crack in the mounting flange!). They shipped it to me so cheap and for such a cheap price I thought for sure I'd get burned.... nope, 100% feedback, and  I'm 100% thrilled. I did have to buy new breakers and fuses and wire it all up and get rid of that ugly winnie fuse and breaker panel, but for me, that's easy work!
I can help anyone out rigging up one of these, just email me and I'll send you a detailed "How-To" (and it will still be wired according to the NEC and RVIA codes) (remember, those grounds must all be separate, even if they all go to the chassis anyway!!)

The Genny Auto transfer switch is a different story altogether.It was purchased separately and wired in.

Total cost:
$89 for the panel (shipped)
$32 for the siemens breakers, ATC 12v fuses and assorted cable clamps and such (LOWE'S)

$121 total money well spent!

3 hours to change it over from start to finish!
(one hour to take it apart and mark everything, paint the back panel and two more hours cutting the hole 4" wider, and wiring it up!)

Well worth the effort. (Of course you must understand that I live and breathe electronics every day, so any wiring issues won't slow me down at all!)

Electro-Tom 

[Cooneytoones]

Sent: 5/18/2005

Electro-Tom.....Can I borrow you for a couple of hours?

ElectrocutedTimmy

[Derrek]

Sent: 5/20/2005

Thanks for the info Tom! I will start making plans to replace my converter.....