72 D22 ~Raise Rear Profile

[The_Handier_Man1]

From: mjswin  (Original Message)
Sent: 9/20/2006 4:58 PM

I have left rear fender rub on my 72 Indian D22 that I want to eliminate before by entire fender and wheel well is destroyed.

I just had a phone estimate of $2000 to raise the profile. I think this estimate involved newly fabricated leaf springs which I was told would be needed becuase replacement springs are no longer available.

I've read about the follwoing on this board.
1. Air Springs
2. Re-Arching Leaf Springs.

Can anyone else relay their experiences with these solutions: maybe specifically with a D22. Also, any advice on another place I can call in San Fernando Valley, Ca would be great. This guy said he had 300 coaches on his lot, currently working 70. He said he need me to leave the coach for 1-2 weeks along with $1000 for me to get a 1 hour estimate which costs $100: wow!

Also, are my fenders supposed to skirt my tires a bit? Maybe I need another suspension fix which corrects a lean. It doesn't appear to leaning.



From: DampDude007
Sent: 9/20/2006 5:11 PM

How long have they been rubbing?
New tires?
Did a shock mount break?
Dude



From: DanD2soon
Sent: 9/20/2006 5:14 PM

Michael,

What has changed? to make the tire rub, I mean?  Have you changed tires?  How long has it been rubbing?  Tell us more!

DanD



From: DampDude007
Sent: 9/20/2006 5:24 PM

Hey Dan,
Let me know when you need an extra hand down there!!
Ddue



From: mjswin
Sent: 9/20/2006 5:49 PM

Thanks for the quick replys guys. Unfortunately I can't get too much more detailed. I just noticed the rub as I staged it to put it in a storage lot for the first time. I've only owned the coach for about 4 months. I didn't notice the rub when I had it parked on the street during the time I was looking for a storage lot which had room, and was in the area I wanted to store it (Thousand Oaks, Ca.).

Can I get a brief description of what I would see if a shock mount broke? The rub isn't very severe. Of course, I imagine big bumps make the situation worse.



From: mjswin
Sent: 9/20/2006 6:10 PM

I'm guessing I would see something not looking right where the top part of the shock bolts on.



From: DanD2soon
Sent: 9/20/2006 7:53 PM

Others here are better equipped than I am to tell you how things should look on a winnie - but at the least, I'd try looking at the suspension on yours as best you can if you can't jack it up.  You might getan idea of how things should look from some of the picture albums here on CW.  Check the member register for other D22's with photo links and check what theirs look like - the list is sortable by clicking column headings like year, model, etc.   (Just noticed, Dude's is a D22)

Pictures are always a help too -  If you can take some that show the problem - it may help get the feedback you need.

I sure wouldn't take it to Mr. "Bring us the Cash & Wait" - Not yet!

Good luck,
DanD



From: AllanCZ
Sent: 9/21/2006 1:32 AM

Is your tire obviously recessed into the wheelwell? Does the rear look to be sagging when you view it from the side at a modest distance?

I'll relate a story that will give you something to check out, assuming you haven't already done so... My grandparents 1973 Indian D22 had a recurring issue where we'd be happily traveling down the highway and start smelling burning rubber. There is a piece of sheet metal above the rear wheels, a liner of sorts for the wheelwell... This thing would come loose and start rubbing the tires. My grandad did a quick fix each time which actually lasted a little while between times but would inevitably come back. Like maybe after 1500 to 2000 miles.

Maybe a silly suggestion, but I thought I'd throw it out there.



From: denisondc
Sent: 9/21/2006 4:33 AM

On my 72 D22 the top of the wheel arch is a fiberglass molding. One of them had sagged onto the tire years ago while on vacation - we heard the noise when we would go around corners where the RV leaned to that side.
In our relatives driveway I pushed it back up into place, and added 6 bolts (1/4-20) from a nearby hardware store to hold it up, with large washers. The wheel arch part had originally been stapled up to the coach floor; but the wood of the floor was deteriorated at that point, probably from years of being dampened by water being sprayed up by the tire on wet roads. I wasnt able to simply push the wheel arch back into place by hand - I had to use my bottle jack and some wood chunks to help push it up. Then I drilled the holes for the bolts. I should have then added some caulking to keep out future water spays, but I didnt. (This is a good reminder.)
I know that some of the wheel arches are made of steel.
If this is what has happened to yours, its probably not to hard to force that arched piece back up, and to bolt it in. If the floor is fairly rotted (which I think is also normal, unfortunately) you might want to put a piece of metal bar stock across the span, and drill holes in that for the bolts to go through. A load-spreader. Half of the difficulty will be getting access to the top of the wheel arch. I had to remove the furnace to reach mine.
I think it very likely your leaf springs have sagged, and that might have lowered the vehicle somewhat - Im guessing it could be as much as two inches. Im sure mine have sagged, but its not a problem for me. The spring should sitll arch upwards though. A fully loaded spring will have its top leaf -straight- or -flat-. No matter how much you load into your winnebago, the top leaf of the spring should still arch upward a little.
I dribble a line of 90 wt oil onto the top leaf of all 4 springs about once a year. It slowly oozes down over the spring stack, and not only slows down future rust, but lubricates where the ends of each leaf rubs on the longer leaf above it.
Your existing springs can be re-arched, if there arent any cracked leaves; and this can be done either -cold-, using a very large press, or it can be done -hot-. This means the springs would be annealed to remove the tempering, then re-arched, and re-tempered. (More expensive!) If you have a cracked spring leaf, a replacement could be found in a salvage yard - if you wanted to search long enough, or pay someone to search long enough.
Making up new springs is certainly feasible, but I would be mildly surprised if the cost/labor was only $2000 to do all 4 of them.
Can you take pictures of the spring-to-axle spacing, from underneath the RV? We all have sagged springs, and photos would give us a better idea whether yours was that much worse than normal.

Try going to the -Search- page and doing a search for 'air springs'. I use the search feature of my browser, since it seems to work better than the Microsoft search feature. If you need to raise your rig, the air springs would probably be cheaper than getting the original leaf springs redone.
And it seems that adding the air springs is easier than working on the leaf springs...... since you do it without removing the leaf springs!

P. S. I have to jack my Winnebago up by the frame, in order to be able to change a tire. If I only jack it up by the axle, the wheel opening in the body wont let the tire come off. This might be a combination of spring sag, and tires that are slightly bigger than the tires were back in the 70s, though still the same .7.50-17 nominal size.



From: ClydesdaleKevin
Sent: 9/21/2006 8:11 AM

Here's a simple solution that will make tire changes easier for you in the future...cut your wheel openings slightly bigger!

Use a roto zip or a jig saw, and carefully cut the opening, keeping it the same shape, a and inch or more bigger all the way around.  This will require new aluminum trim around the wheel well, but that would be your only expense.

Check to make sure no loose aluminum is hanging down on the wheel, and if it is, resecure it.

By opening up the wheel well a bit, you'll eliminate any scraping, and also make it easier to get the rear wheels off to change a flat!  You won't have to jack it as high to get the tires off.

Make sure you do both sides...lol...it might look funny if one was bigger than the other.

Of course, make sure not of the other potential problems exist first, like a broken shock mount, etc.

If your rear leaf springs have an arch to them, instead of being flat, they are probably still good.

Good luck!

Kev



From: mjswin
Sent: 9/21/2006 8:25 AM

Thanks for all the great advice.

My wheel well is not grossly bottomed out and rubbing my wheel arch. I believe my situation is similar to what AlanCZ is describing. I haven't smelled any rubber yet becuase I just run it 45 miles back and forth from dry climate storage to the beach on weekends.

I'm going to get it jacked up and give the suspension a check-up tomorrow. I think idea of widening the wheel openings will solve my problem, but I like the way it looks original if I can just get a few more inches clearance.

Thanks again everyone.



From: mjswin
Sent: 9/21/2006 8:27 AM

I forgot ot attach pictures to my last post. The left rear is where I have the rub. I also included picture from the rear of the coach.

Pictures did not transfer