Engine Swap: 413 to 440?

[SeaRaySRV16O]

Sent: 7/23/2004 11:21 PM

I am curious to know if anyone has actually pulled the engine in their Winnie? Mine is the old 413 in a '72 Indian. It only has 65,000 on the odometer but pre-73 engines don't have the steel valve seats. Just wondered if anyone has pulled an engine and what all is involved. Seems like the 440 would be a natural swap.

Regards,

Robert Donley

[70winnie]

Sent: 7/24/2004 12:08 AM

I can only tell you that it can be done, because the original 318 or 413 in my 1970 D22 was replaced by a PO with a 440.

[HeavyHaulTrucker]

Sent: 7/24/2004 12:25 AM

Now you are talking about REAL work!

You have to pull the front grill, radiator, bumper, front frame crossmember, etc.  Then you have to get either a cherry picker into the opening, or a wheeled motor stand under the engine, and secure the engine; once secure & supported, you have to pull the motor mounts & transmission mounts (the easiest way to do it is to take it out as a unit -- then you can go over the trans as well, or replace it if you need to).  If you have a good wheeled transmission jack, you can support the tranny and wheel the whole unit out at one time.

Engine replacement is just the reverse; the 413 and 440 use the same motor mounts (rubber blocks), engine wiring harness, etc. -- so it is a pretty simple swap -- just a lot of work.

John

[Sea Hag]

Sent: 7/24/2004 10:54 AM

The  motor mount insolater blocks may be the same , but the parts catalog list different number for the frame and engine mounts for a 440 3 .  I don't think the earlier 440 had the hardened valve seats  untill about 75 or so maybe 77 .  If your 413 is still running strong I wouln't go through the trouble . as you probabnly won't ever put enough addition millage on it to see the effect . There are also several products to add to the gas for lead substute . the Valve tech product I have used is added every other fill up . so I 'd use one or two bottles a year . - Sea Hag

[discoverer]

Sent: 7/24/2004 4:08 PM

JUST my opinion ....(but I do have some facts that support it to) ....I feel that in a MH application that a 413 is a BETTER motor than a 440. And those special valve seats?....NOT necessary since the 413 has sodium filled exhaust valves. 

[Oz]

Sent: 7/25/2004 7:16 PM

I just had the opportunity to drive Dave Denison's 413.  It drove like a stationwagon.  Plenty of power off the start and all the way through.  Very smooth.  You'd think the engine could pull a tracktor trailor behind it with as little effort as it showed to pull his rig.

I've always kept it in mind Dave's observation that a well maintained original engine, 318, 413, or 440 was quite adequate for it's application.  Stock...  As was manufactured, given some leeway for certain mechanical/electrical shortcomings as you will have with any vehicle, then.... or now.  The brief, enjoyable ride I had in his was all the proof I needed to support that observation.   

[kevsws6]

Sent: 7/27/2004 2:01 PM

I wouldn't do it till the 413 died. You aren't going to see any benefit in doing it earlier than that. The 413 is a great motor and gives nothing up to the 440 in this type of comparison.

Mfg / Year Engine Carb. Bore & Stroke Comp. HP @ RPM Torque @ RPM Notes.
Dodge 1971/72 V8- 413-1 4 BBL 4.188 X 3.75 7.5 to 1 265 @ 4000 445 fp @ 2400 Sodium Ex. Valves
Dodge 1971/72 V8- 413-3 4 BBL 4.188 X 3.75 7.5 to 1 238 @ 3600 407 fp @ 2000 Sodium Ex. Valves
Dodge 1973 V8- 413-3 4 BBL 4.188 X 3.75 7.5 to 1 190 @ 3200 355 fp @ 2000 Sodium Ex. Valves
Dodge 1974 V8- 440-1 4 BBL 4.32 X 3.75 8.12 to 1 225 @ 4000 345 fp @ 3200 
Dodge 1974 V8- 440-3 4 BBL 4.32 X 3.75 8.2 to 1 235 @ 4000 340 fp @ 2400 
Dodge 1976 V8- 413-3 4 BBL 4.188.X 3.75 7.54 to 1 175 @ 3200 325 fp @ 2000 Sodium Ex. Valves
Dodge 1976 V8- 440-3 4 BBL 4.32 X 3.75 8.2 to 1 225 @ 4000 330 fp @ 2400 
Dodge 1979 V8- 440-3 4 BBL 4.32 X 3.75 8.2 to 1 225 @ 4000 330 fp @ 2400 

Higher torque at a lower rpm is the ideal. These engines will have the power necessary at a higher rpm to climb hills without totally losing it and also have the lugging power needed when pulling under load. Also keep in mind a lower compression ratio means you don't have to worry about detonation. Also you can burn the "Cheap Stuff" These are industrial rated engines and some have sodium filled stainless steel valves with rotators and will do fine burning todays unleaded gas. A 413 Dodge for instance can get you 250 to 300,000 miles if you take care of it properly. Engines built after 1972 generally have less power per cubic inch due to the changes in engine design to comply with the new pollution standards in effect that year.

The info was pulled off a web site I found. It didnt have info on the small block. If I remeber corectly the 318 had about 280 ftlbs torque. Does your info give the torque numbers?

[SeaRaySRV16O]

Sent: 2/6/2005 9:49 PM

Hi and thanx for all the input. Good chart, KEVSWS6 , I was wonderin' what the dif is between the V8- 413-1, 4 BBL and the V8- 413-3, 4 BBL, other than the rated HP & torque.

My 413 has a 265 hp sticker on the air filter lid, so I know what I got(I think). The 413-3 has a lower hp & torque rating, but it's also at a lower RPM, so it might just be a wash.