Engine shot - Should I re-build or replace it?

[The_Handier_Man1]

From: WrongWay1120  (Original Message)
Sent: 6/3/2006 9:38 PM

Ive got a '69 d22 with a 318. I just found out that one of the cyliners is toast!
Now should I rebuild the 318? Find 360 and rebuild it? Or look for a big block...383,413or 440??



From: poppinjohnnies
Sent: 6/4/2006 5:39 AM

When you say the cylinder is toast, do you mean it is scuffed or cracked? If it's not too bad, it can be bored oversize. A cylinder can also be sleeved to standard bore, too. Either would require removal of the engine, though. If it was me, I'd rebuild the original. My Port of Indecision has a 440 and it gets about 5-6 mpg. At $2.80 / gal, camping trips have become very expensive. I'll bet your rig did a lot better with the 318.



From: Slantsixness
Sent: 6/4/2006 5:47 AM

You need to find out which 318 you have.

The wideblock 318 has 2 bolts through the valve cover top and a sawtoothed pattern above the sparkplugs on the valve cover. The 318 LA (318-3) has 6 bolts around the edges of a more standard looking valve cover.

If you have a dead clinder, it might not be necessary to replace the enitre motor. You could have just a burnt valve, bad cam or something relatively simple to repair. The heads on either 318 motor are fairly simple to remove in vehicle. Removing the whole motor is not such an easy task.

Let us know more about which 318 you have.

Here's a picture of the wideblock. Keep in mind, the wideblock 318 is more desireable over the 318-3, but parts are a little difficult to find. If the whole motor is shot, then the wideblock can be replaced with a 318-3 or 360-3.

Tom



From: 1978Chieftain
Sent: 6/4/2006 7:52 AM

It just amazes me how you guys can know this kind of stuff!



From: rlm98253
Sent: 6/4/2006 8:05 AM

Your profile doesn't indicate where you live. If you are on the West Coast, I have a 1974 LA318-3 engine with 32,000 miles on it that you can have, free. Engine runs great.

Actually, it doesn't matter where you live, you can still have the engine...just might be inconvenient to get.

Contact me.

rlm98253

dmahan@whidbey.net



From: WrongWay1120
Sent: 6/4/2006 8:27 AM

Wow! Everyone here is amazing! And I thought I knew a little bit about mopars too.
Well I guess I don't. As far as the engine goes I was convinced it was a wideblock, but I read somewhere here on the web that chrysler stopped making the wideblock or sometimes called the "poly" motor in "67.  The other problem I have is that I havent seen my winnie for over a month. Its currently at a shop about 50 miles from here. I had shocks brakes and exhaust put on her.

I drive truck coast to coast and am only home every other weekend. The mechanic told me on Friday that more than  one of the clyinders had very low compression and was fouling out the plug really bad. This is where my jaw dropped. He said he could tune it up and rebuild the carb for  $695.  I might as well pull the motor and have it gone through completely. 

I think I got taken on the shocks and exhaust and to have the brakes bled and adjusted.......$805.......what do you guys think??



From: scorpion-162
Sent: 6/4/2006 8:40 AM

wow wrongway I think you need to find a new shop. you can buy a new carb from advance auto for  it for less then the guy was talking about rebuilding and tune up.
I got all new plugs,wires and tune up parts for about $60.00 I priced the carb. 2 bbl 318-3  and it was like $109.00 for a new one. now if you have a 4 bbl a new carb is higher, but I have never seen any rebuild kit for any carb that was over $50.00 and you can rebuild a carb in about an hour. btw when I looked up my carb I had them look at a 74 dodge pickup. but the plugs are differant in the 318-3 then the regular 318. didn't know this untill I pulled the old ones out. what engine is in yours?



From: 3x2x4sp389
Sent: 6/4/2006 10:35 AM

My mopar buddy says that replacing your 318 with a junkyard 360 / 2bbl will be night an day difference in power with possible savings in mileage as it won't have to work as hard. Plus you can back it up with a later 4sp auto.



From: denisondc
Sent: 6/4/2006 2:27 PM

I had low compression in three cylinders when I got my 72 winnebago, with 49k miles on it, in 1991. It has the 413-1 motor. It had been sitting for about 4 years. One cylinder was below 50, another was about 60. I put in new plugs and new spark plug wires, Clean Oil and new oil filter, some Marvel Mystery Oil, and drove it on the highway for a 2000 mile vacation. It used a qt of oil in the first 75 miles, another qt in the next 150 miles, and a 3rd qt by the time we had driven 400 miles. But the plugs didn’t foul out, and it stopped smoking blue from the tail pipe. When I checked the compression at the end of that vacation the lowest cylinder was about 90 psi. All compression checks should be done on a cold engine I believe.
Now we have put another 55,000 miles on the motorhome, over 15 years. If I check the compression after the engine has been sitting for 8-10 months, I get readings varying from 80 to 140. If I check it after a hundred miles of driving, they all read above 125 psi. I now get about 750 miles per a quart of oil.
I would make sure you don’t have any bent pushrods. You can do this by removing the valve covers, and spinning the top ends of the pushrods with your fingers. You will have to rotate the crankshaft a little bit to be able to do this for all cylinders, as they wont spin if the cam lobe is pushing the lifter up to hold the valve open.
And when you are done, you will have new valve cover gaskets in place too!
I avoid starting my engine unless I have some errand to run, or can otherwise use the motor to pull the motorhome down the highway. This is the only way to get the oil hot enough to drive out the pollutants that condense into the oil when it is cold. Remember, burning a gallon of gasoline produces about a gallon of water â€"most of which leaves the tailpipe in the form of vapor, but some of which will condense into the crankcase when the oil is cool.
I had to rebuilt the carb on mine twice in the years we have had it. Carburetors might last forever, but their gaskets Do Not!
Also, since the original engine has lasted this many years, it has proven it doesn’t have design defects. The 318 is possibly the most reliable engine ever put into a vehicle, -(followed closely by the Chevy 350 if you ask me). If you take the motor out to rebuild it, it would be a good time to have the tranny rebuilt. If the tranny is original, it might still be in fine shape, but its old seals will be leaking. I don’t think there is a faster way to ruin a transmission than to run it with the fluid too low. My winny uses the same transmission as yours. My tranny is original and not rebuilt. But it does require a couple of pints of tranny fluid every few weeks. My engine is original too, and it hasn’t been rebuilt.



From: Im-still-Lefty
Sent: 6/4/2006 9:28 PM

Ok, I've got a question. Exactly how is this "mechanic" going to repair an engine that has low compression on one (or more) cylinders, by performing a "tune-up" and carb. rebuild?
Has he gave you a detailed estimate that breaks down the parts and labor into seperate sections? A full tune-up, consisting of plugs, cap, rotor, wires, and filters. Along with setting the timing, and related checks, should run about 2.5hrs. labor.
Labor time for rebuilding a carb. should be .5hrs to remove, .5 hrs to reinstall, and 1.0hrs to rebuild. for a total of 2hrs.
That means, a shop with a fairly common rate of $65/hr. would total around $292.50 for labor on the entire job.
Add in the parts, figuring in double actual cost (for shop profit) and you get $348 parts ($65-tune-up, and $109 carb. times 2)
Grand total= $640.50
This would be roughly in line with the $695 estimate you gave, the difference could be in either the parts used, or the amount of labor involved. So, I don't think he's outrageously high, just that I don't feel he has your best interests in mind by recommending a tune-up, when there appears to be other, more serious issues at play.
As for the $805 shocks/brakes repair, figure 4 shocks @ $50ea. (double actual price of $25ea. for Monroe Sensa-Tracs) and labor of around .5 ea. = $330, Add in exhaust and brakes, and you could easily hit $700-800
People sometimes forget that shops are going to charge for every little thing they do, or supply. At a standard shop labor rate of around $65/hr. this can add up quickly.
Also, unless you provide all of the parts, and supplies used (with the shops prior permission), they are going to mark them up by at least double. Sometimes even more.
I personally would request a cylinder leak-down test. This test will specifically isolate the low cyl. in question. And will pinpoint whether the cause is a leaking head gasket, cracked head, burnt or chipped intake valve, burnt or chipped exhaust valve, bad rings, or cracked cyl.. This test typically costs around $100 to perform, and does require specific, specialized equipment. So ask them if they can perform it first. This is NOT a standard compression test, or a standard vacuum test.
Once you have the results of that, then you will be in a better position to decide on a course of action. Basically, if the problem is in the heads, such as a valve or gasket, or cracked head, then I would just repair the damage. If it's in the block, such as rings, cyl. crack, or piston damage, then I would rebuild or replace the entire engine.
If a shop is doing the work, keep in mind that it's usually cheaper to replace the engine, than to have yours rebuilt. This is because you are going to pay parts and labor to rebuild yours, along with machine shop charges. Also, a replacement long block usually has at least a 1 yr. warranty. But be sure to read the fine print, almost all rebuilders have restrictions on any application 1-ton or larger. Usually the warranty is reduced to 90 days, or entirely voided.
If you do opt to replace with a larger engine, keep in mind that there are going to be some things that won't fit or work on the newer engine design, requiring more parts purchases. There's always a bracket, pulley, or some little something, that won't fit as is.



From: Slantsixness
Sent: 6/7/2006 10:44 AM

The 318 wideblock was installed in models all the way to 1970, but it's a hit or miss game... there are 1970 Winnies out there with 1968 chassis... mostly due to supply and demand. Some chassis' were delivered early on in the model year, others were laying around in stock and unused for several years, but still new nonetheless.... It also depended on the length and style of chassis. (P300, M300, M375 and so on..)

Tom



From: denisondc
Sent: 6/7/2006 6:54 PM

I would remove the fuel filter and have just a continuous metal line running from the fuel pump to the carb. I would have the fuel filter in the rubber line just before the pump. That way the filter is not in the pressurized part of the fuel system. And you can change it from under the front bumper, without taking the engine cover off.