Towing two horses through the country

[eXodus]

Hello there,


Since I moved to Florida I want to see more of this great country. The emphasize in the sentence is on Country. So I started researching - how to most economically move around with two horses and a living space.
First Idea: Get a big Pickup and a Goose-neck Trailer with Living Quarter. For people which are not in the Horse Szene:

Looks kinda like that. But this things are heavy ! you get nothing under 10.000lbs which means you need at least a 3/4 better a 1 ton Pickup Diesel.
Even for 30 year old LQ Trailer I would have to pay at least $20k and a Diesel Pickup is around the same price. 
It's probably the best way to get around with horses. But I don't have 40k to much laying around.


Second Idea, a Slide in Truck Camper and a Bumper-pull Horse-trailer:



Much more economic. No third Engine laying around. But also hard to get and also heavy ! A Slide-In is between 3000 and 5000lbs which ones again means a 3/4 Ton Pickup.
I don't know the bigger Pickups are quite expensive down here in Florida, $20k and the Livingspace is nothing, 8 feet of Pickup bed..


So Now I got the cheapest combination:
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It's my $5500 horse Trailer and the $3500 Itasca Sunrise.


The trailer fully loaded, with hay for two weeks and all our gear about 5800 pounds (8000 max) I just had the Sunrise at the scale its a little over 12000 lbs (all tanks full) with a Max of 14800 lbs and GCWR of 19000lbs.


But the Itasca towing is only rated to 5000lbs. And I know why
The 3 feet frame extension is welded on - (better then bolt on) but very very bad welded. I guess they didn't had the right C-Channels laying around.
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So will work together with my neighbor on this piece at the weekend.  Add the missing welds, close the gap (bend or weld a little piece in) add a Patch over the hole section or box-in the C-Channels.


The hitch itself is fine - over the original tag is a Winnebago tag, will try to remove it. But it seems like a 7500/750lbs hitch.
Yesterday I added a proportional brake controller. Waiting to get the 30 feet wire to connect it to the 6 Pin connector.
Hopefully we can start test driving next week. 


Sebastian

[eXodus]

Today was the big welding day. My neighbor called the Winnebago work "a cold weld" and explained it to me that the weld is not finished and it was not hot enough to meld the two pieces together. It took about an hour two close every gap.
They manufacturer started not to bad, but then all good ideas had been time cut.  There is a patch on the outside of the C-Channel - and the channel has a little square window to the patch - at this position the welder could have set a nice weld but he only did one dot... I think in the production line they have maybe 20min to half and hour to do the frame extension. After I did the prepping it was about 45min of solid welding time to set everything together.
We didn't add any patch in the inside- just welded the existing parts good together. Now the whole thing looks much stronger. Will clean up tomorrow under there and paint everything.


The Hitch itself seems fine after cleaning.  6 times a good looking half inch bolt.  Just need to run the 10 awg wire to the new 7 pin trailer receptacle then we are ready for a test drive

[JessEm]

Good job! 

[eXodus]

so some pictures - painted everything under there today:
excuse the not so perfect welds is kinda hard on the back unter the MH


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We did closed the gaps:
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welded the C-channels together and used the windows in the frame:
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And a picture of the reinforced hitch receiver:
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So no more work today

[Rickf1985]

What does your passenger side look like? Mine is not a solid frame all the way back. I have a thread going in the Miscellaneous section.

[eXodus]

both sides look the same at my rig. With this bad construction work I would be not surprised that you may have lost part of your frame ? Maybe there was a frame extension and someone lost it on the way.

[eXodus]

Today I got my Trailer hitched up the first time on the MH.
I have to cut bigger holes in the rubber to get the safety chains trough and adjust the chain length.


and we did the first test drive with the Trailmobile
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Without the horses it looks kinda everything seems fine. The Hayes Energize III does a nice job braking the trailer. Had to adjust a little bit the gain but no really nice braking power.


The TBI engine does a good job with propelling the whole thing. The welding looks fine and no strange noises from the back. Will drive a couple of times empty and then load the horses.
And the Blue stripping of the trailer and MH are matching.

Happy most stuff works. I also discovered that the AUX pin at the 6 pin Trailer plug is power by the backup lights.  So this is not bad but also not good. I have to rewire because I would love to have 12+ of the house batteries in the trailer for the lights.

[pvoth1111]

Although it might be somewhat improved than before those welds are.....weak...What was used a car battery and wire clothes hangers?......im glad you got some more metal in there but I would grind that down and lay in some straps across the seams and add some nice caps with a arc welder and some 7018....sorry.

[eXodus]

Yeah, I know what you are thinking. Could be nicer and a patch over the inside would be cool also.  BUT it is a pain in the .... to weld under the rigg. No space no room and we've got 95 here in Florida
What to you think about boxing the channels ? maybe a 8 or 10 inch long plate of metal welded to the open side of the C-Channels and to make a sturdy square tubing out of it ?


On the other hand, I am towing around 6000 and not 10k, the frame extension was good for 5K as it come out of the factory (clothes hangers are a good guess) and I'm not going higher.

[eXodus]

I had been thinking about welding the hitch to the frame, but I don't like something permanent there. I'm not yet sure if the drop is enough for my trailer and I'm not going to get a drop hitch insert thing.


I've got a 3 inch square tubing hitch with a reinforced receiver there, haven't found the hitch rating yet, but everything which is built similar has at least a 7500 or 10.000 lbs rating. And If I need a different drop, or just want to get the receiver more to the front under the motor-home it would be better If I could remove the hitch.

With all our stuff in the front of the trailer we are around 450-500lbs. The suspension seems to have no problem with this. (Fresh Water full and fuel half)  Yesterday at the testdrive it was breezy and I had the feeling the whole train is a little nervous.

[eXodus]

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After a couple of test drives I had difficulties to see the horse trailer in the right mirrors. Due to the awning arms.


So I just decided to get the mirror a little more distance to the coach - prototype Woodblock V1
Will try this the next days and if its, working the whole assembly gets sanded and new paint.

[eXodus]

Today we did our first test drive with the horses. Just around the corner 20 min drive to a nearby park for an 6 miles horseback ride.

The Itasca handles very good with the weight. I had to crank up the brake controller gain a little bit, after this it was a good to brake.
After adding 5500 lbs to the coach I can finally feel that there is something behind.







I though I get maybe some sagging with the 500lbs at the hitch, but nothing...  W% so now I need drop receiver. At least two more inches of drop to get the trailer more leveled.
And unfortunately the old owner thought it was good idea to install a lock for the hitch and lost the keys.
Have to drill it out somehow.

[Froggy1936]

A Dremel with reinforced cutoff wheels is easier  Frank

[Elandan2]

Frank, your last statement there implies some experience.    Rick

[eXodus]

Dremel is good idea. Too bad I don't own one at the moment. I had two over in Germany....


I will see if I got enough room to just insert a cutting wheel into my Powerdrill, takes a little longer sure, but could work. Thanks !

[Lefty]

Looking good!

About your comment about needing airbags with the 6,000lb trailer... and you only having 350lbs of tongue weight.
For stability when towing, a trailer needs at the minimum 10% of it's total weight at the tongue. Ideally, 15%. This keeps the trailer from fish-tailing and makes it tow much more stable.

For his 6,000lb trailer he should have between 600lbs and 900lbs at the tongue. Thus, needing airbags to level it back out. Yours at the 5,000lbs you estimated should be at least 500lbs, with 750lbs ideal.
With your cargo being horses.. it'd be kinda hard to load the horses any farther forward than the trailer is designed... but you could add ballast to the storage area in the front. possibly a short section of railroad track. I used to have a 4' section welded under a 1-ton van I owned because the suspension was so stiff when empty. It added about 250lbs of ballast to soften the ride. If yours is only 350lbs at the tongue, it could make the trailer dangerously unstable at freeway speeds.

[eXodus]

A Railroad track interesting you are right, we can not move the horse in the trailer. I try to get a drop receiver first and look how it's going. My ballast will be feed, gonna load 4-6x 45lbs hay-bales in front of the axles right in the middle  of the trailer.
I like that the rear suspensions doesn't sag under that added weight, like our half ton Dodge. When I hitch up the 1500 it goes down about 2-3 inches. Which is okey because it has the offroad suspension and we have a lot of travel left. But the Itasca doesn't move down at all.

[eXodus]

Yesterday the the MM485 blade for my Dremel Multi-Max arrived:
It is a carbide blade which should cut through probably everything.



Today I got under the MH and tried it with the Hitch lock-bolt, and really, this thing did a real good job, it was crazy loud but after only 2 minutes the bolt was cut.
The blade still looks good. I was afraid of getting the complete hitch of the frame because there was no room to cut with a grinder or even with a normal Dremel.


Now I installed a 2 inch drop receiver and will try how level the trailer is.

[Rickf1985]

When I asked about your passenger side frame rail I meant that mine does not go straight back solid. I have a large compartment on the passenger side that goes all the way across to the drivers side frame rail. The passenger side is split up with a small tube going through the top of the compartment and a goofy looking setup going under the compartment held there by supports that come up the the frame at 90 degrees. NOT conducive towing!
I have one concern which may not be anything but I have to ask. With the trailer so close to the back of the coach don't you worry about the exhaust from the coach that gets caught in the draft behind the flat back of the coach poisoning the horses? I know a guy that had a horse die after he put straight out the back duals on his pick up and never thought about where that exhaust was going. I realize the exhaust on the coach is on the side but the air all drafts around the back due to the shape.

[eXodus]

Thank you for concerning about the animals ! A lot of people don't care, I really appreciate it.


I'm lucky the exhaust pipe of my coach is routed right behind the left rear wheel to the outside. So the exhaust should be spreading without harming the horses.
That's also why most Pickups have their exhaust routed to one or the other sidewall. A straight exhaust pipe could accumulate dangerous amount of gases in every towing vehicle.
Even Travel trailer had the problem, towed behind a straight exhaust - the people got out, into the trailer and died from Carbon Monoxide.

[Rickf1985]

I had a horse at one time and still love horses. Just can't afford them anymore. I would put a CO detector in the trailer and find a way to wire the alarm into the coach, or at least to a big red LED on the trailer in your line of sight somewhere. Disable the alarm on the unit so as not to spook the horses. the wiring should be easy.

[eXodus]

that is a really good idea. I wanted to put a camera in the trailer to see what they are doing.
I could put a CO detector in the field of view of the camera. Or even better, newer CO and smoke detectors can be linked wireless. I was considering to replace my old detectors in the coach, now I knew that I need the wireless linking.  It just makes to turn on the alarm at every linked detector.  (Living room, Bedroom, Trailer)


Just googled around and voila: http://www.amazon.com/First-Alert-SCO501CN-3ST-SCO500-Combination/dp/B000EVO7C2/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1411664611&sr=1-2&keywords=co+detector+wireless


CO + Smoke + wireless. So I can replace my both detectors in the coach with a new one (or just leave the old in, still blinking)  and get the peace of mind that if the trailer would get to much exhaust or catches fire I get some warning.
Thanks Rick !

[Rickf1985]

If we ever meet up somewhere I want a horseback ride. If I still am walking at that point.

[eXodus]

sure, will be touring through the country next summer.  Maybe can meet somewhere.  Or you stop by for some sunshine in Fort Myers, FL


Florida -> Utah, Colorado and back.

[77Brave]

Great to see another rider on the site.  Really cool to see you using the rig to tow, I've often thought about how fun it would be to do this. I like your camera idea, I've been thinking of hooking up a small camera and screen in the truck. Maybe one of those aftermarket backup cameras. Keep those ponies safe behind that big rig.