Goodbye split rims

[M300-413]

Sent: 5/23/2005 8:45 AM

The restoration is nearing complettion and now it 's time to update the wheels on my 72 Brave M300. I've been considering the 16 inch steel wheel from Southwest wheels but I do have a concern about the 2140 lb rating. My GWVR is about  11,000 lbs which doesn't give me alot of room for error. The price is the best I've seen and I like the fact that the wheels are coined just like the orignals. I would like to have recommendations from anyone who has made this switch. What wheels and what tires are working the best?

Thanks
Pete 

[denisondc]

Sent: 5/27/2005 8:10 AM

I dont know why the original wheels, or of the same kind would need updating. Are the originals the 16 inch split rims ones?

[chip]

Sent: 5/27/2005 11:02 AM

why don't you weigh your winnie fully loaded first. mine [which is the same as yours] weighs@ 10,000 with all my families junk in it.
BTW, i've run the ford rims on the back for 5 years now with no sign of problems.

sorry, you have a big block--i have a 318. but i would still check the weight.

[rugar20]

Sent: 5/27/2005 4:31 PM

Does anyone know where i can get Rims? what years of ford  or dodge are applicable  also does anyone know when winnebago stopped using split rims?

[M300-413]

Sent: 5/31/2005 7:45 AM

Yes they are 16 inch. I just don't want to deal with inner tubes and a hassel of split rims f I have a problem on the road. A couple of them are very rusty, especialy on the retaining ring.. 

[mbmcmahan]

Hoping this discussion may continue after 10 years gone by... I have a 69 D24 M300 5.2L with 16" split rims and want to nail down conversion to solid rims... what replacement works, how expensive, where to get etc.  Please advise.

Correction:  After employing the tape measure I find that the rims measure 17.5" diameter 7.5" wide with 8x lugs on 6.5" centers.  The two front tires are 7.50 16 tubeless radials (is this bad?) while the dual rears are non radial.  All vintage 1997 (at least).  Are solid (non-split) dual rims available at a reasonable price or should I forget this idea and just replace the old rubber on the existing split rims-- if low budget is the case.

is anyone out there reading this?

[Rickf1985]

I am reading it but you have totally lost me with all of the odd measurements. Are you sure the old tires on the splits are 16" and not 16.5"? You mention 17.5 inch which was used on some of the older units, is this what you have? As far as going to a newer 16 inch wheel there should be no problem but check the fit of the rim on the hub first to make sure it clears all of the brake parts.

[legomybago]

I've never heard of a tubeless tire on a split ring rim before. Should have tubes.
Running bias on one end, and radials on the other makes for terrible handling. Sorry, I have no info on what wheels you need!  Hm?
I'm sure if you use the search box you will find a lot of info on wheels.

[khantroll]

Hi mbmcmahan, 8 x 6.5 is the most common bolt pattern available. These are the rims I think *Should* fit (I don't have my manuals ATM, so stud size may be incorrect).

DODGERAM 3/4 TON TRUCK 2 & 4WD 1994  >Metric:  8 X 165.1 Standard: 8 X 6.5 9/16-RH 122.5

DODGERAM 3/4 TON TRUCK 2WD, 4WD 1994 >Metric:  8 X 165 Standard: 8 X 6.5 9/16-RH 122.5 

FORDECONOLINE E-250, E350 VAN 1992-08 Metric:  8 X 165.1  Standard: 8 X 6.5 9/16 OR 1/2-RH 124.9

]FORDF250 & F350 2WD, 4WD1988-97Metric:  8 X 165.1 Standard: 8 X 6.5 9/16 OR 1/2-RH 124.9

]FORDF250 & F350 DUALLY 2WD, 4WD1988-98Metric:  8 X 165.1 Standard: 8 X 6.5 9/16 124.9  [/size]

The last number is the diameter of the whole in the center in mm. Different axles have different diameters, so measuring yours is the best way to narrow it down even further.

As for radial tubeless tires on split rims...I've seen it done. I've even contemplated doing it myself. The problem is that they'll be more prone to a blow out, because the stress will be distributed differently (they'll appear to "squat"), which may cause leakage, a blowout, and just odd wear. Best solution (IMHO, YMMV) is to get modern rims and tubeless radials on those. Or keep the split rims and find reconditions rims if yours are in bad shape.

[Rickf1985]

Khantroll, I think you are confusing things with the metric measurements, neither Dodge nor Ford used metric wheels in the 90's and I don't think Dodge ever did go to them, not totally sure on that one. My 99 is not metric. I would say get a set of dual wheels from a 90's Dodge from a yard and they should work. Just be sure you can bring them back if the center hole is the wrong size. One thing to watch for on the Dodge wheels is that they are hubcentric so they have to be a snug fit on the hub or they will move around.

[Rickf1985]

I was just looking through Rock Auto and Dodge never changed to metric but around 2004 they did go to 17 inch wheels. If you have not bought tires yet this may be worth looking into since 16's are the new 16.5's and 17.5's, They are on the way out and the choices in tires are getting slim and prices are going up. The Dodge 17" rim still uses the 8 on 6 1/2 lug pattern, I do not know about the center hub size though. I would think it is the same as the 90's Dodges. Whether that will be good for your old rig is something you will have to research.

[khantroll]

Hi Rick,

Sorry about that, that's how those rims are listed in my cross reference materials. I'm not sure what the standard measurement for the hub size is.   The standard measurements for the studs on those rims is 9/16th, which should be the same on the 8 lug dodge chassis that we use.  And of course, their lug circle is 6.5 inches.

Like you said, though, much simpler to just say "Mid to late 90s Ford or Dodge 3/4 and 1 tons"

I've been thinking about sticking Ford 17s on mine when I get the brake conversion done (which will necessitate a front end conversion anyway, but that's a whole 'nother thread). They'd be more or less the same size as the current wheels, and much easier to come by.

I haven't gotten my hands on a newer set of dodge rims to see how the 17s line up.

[RedneckExpress]

I was just looking through Rock Auto and Dodge never changed to metric but around 2004 they did go to 17 inch wheels. If you have not bought tires yet this may be worth looking into since 16's are the new 16.5's and 17.5's, They are on the way out and the choices in tires are getting slim and prices are going up. The Dodge 17" rim still uses the 8 on 6 1/2 lug pattern, I do not know about the center hub size though. I would think it is the same as the 90's Dodges. Whether that will be good for your old rig is something you will have to research.

Where are you getting your tires at?  I can still easily find highway tread and AT tread 16" LT tires.  Now, if you're looking for old American Standard Tire sizes instead of metrics, then yeah, gets harder, but its not too hard to find an equivalent metric measurement tire that has a fairly similar profile to your stock.

Heck, I can still find 15" rim LT tires for our 85 Chevy Suburban, just gotta go to the right tire shop. 

In terms of price, ALL tires have been going up for the past several years.   The 17 and 18" Rim 10Plys are not any less . 

[Rex]

For what it's worth, I put hankook dynapro a/t's on my split ring rims. Haven't given me a lick of trouble

[keytime]

For what it's worth, I put hankook dynapro a/t's on my split ring rims. Haven't given me a lick of trouble

Are you using tubes?

[DRMousseau]

PLEASE say "Goodbye!" to your split-ring rims.


Mind you that I favor them deeply, for various personal reasons. And those of classic vehicle restorations will retain them if at all possible, for historic purposes. But there are far too many reasons NOT to be using them for everyday practical purposes.


Yes, you'll need tubes and liners, so don't expect typical high-way speeds common today. Tubes and liners create added internal friction and heat even with the original heavy multi-ply bias tires,... 60-65mph was max speed limit when these were common. Even then, loads, road conditions, and temps were to be constantly considered and your tires were watched carefully. If you can happy with this limitation of speed and constant watch, and occasionally limit yourself to cool mornings or night driving in hot southern summers, then they may be acceptable to you.


SURE,... you can mount SOME radials on them, and tubeless ones too, IF you can find something that actually fits. Most important is the fit of the tire bead to the rim and ring. Easy to find in larger radial "truck tire" sizes, not so easy in the smaller sizes folks like us need. And most all ARE "tubeless" designs but you'll still need liners and tubes,... and with any radials you might try, expect greater flex and movement, and those friction and heat problems to be greater with radials, and certainly no better. You can also expect a greater likelihood of "popping" a ring, due to movement of radials bead during the natural flex of radials sidewalls. This will be most critical at the inopportune time of cornering, especially with unnoticed low tire pressure commonly overlooked with radials low stance and profile. Split-ring rims are highly dependent on tire pressures and solid beads to keep the ring seated.


I won't mention the unusual safety measures long forgotten with todays tubeless radials on safety rims. But the long list includes second nature practices necessary for safe use on a daily basis.


Yes,... you'll hear many other opinions and experience of use and such, with this tire and that one. Try what you may like, I have. And my long history is not without exploded batteries, cracked rings or popped rims and beads, and blown shredded tires. But I still have my eyesight, no serious or critical acid burns, and all my fingers and limbs,... due to extreme practices of safety that have become second nature and are never overlooked for even a brief moment, and STILL there have been some unexpected close calls! WHEW!


Sooooo,... repeat again,.... "GOODBYE split-ring rims!"
(NO,... don't throw 'em away! They good for other uses, jus not for today's vehicle uses.)

[khantroll]

I have to agree. IF you have a chassis with any interchange (such as the common 8 x 6.50), then it doesn't make any sense to keep the split rims. Tires easier to come by for the one piece rims, and easier to get other people to work on. 

[keytime]

I'm picking up a 1968 Winnebago D-18 soon.  I realized that it has 6-lug wheels, which I've read are rather rare.  So, I have this additional issue.

I'm looking for the most affordable option to get to non-split rims with radials.  I haven't found a 6-lug non-split rim out there.

Are wheel adapters like these a viable option?

http://m.ebay.com/itm/2-Wheel-Adapters-6-Lug-5-5-To-8-Lug-6-5-Spacers-6x5-5-8x6-5-2-/361520978735?hash=item542c545b2f%3Ag%3AQKgAAOSwInVXHOBo&_trkparms=pageci%253A3d6f8c2d-1f4e-11e7-8a6f-74dbd180a675%257Cparentrq%253A60fa1c0115b0a2abc5a6a744ffff9805%257Ciid%253A1

[stanDman111]

looks like a recipe for disaster = just my opinion

[Rickf1985]

You will find they are for 1/2 ton trucks like Toyotas and Chevy Blazers and 1/2 ton pickups. Your 6 lug rims probably have very large studs and a large bolt hole pattern. Might even be similar to what is on the older military Dodge trucks.

[Elandan2]

The later M600 chassis had 19.5 X 6.0" disc wheels with a 6 bolt pattern. The bolt circle was 8.75" They appear to be the same as those early chassis, but the bolt circle may be different. The other problem could be clearance for the tires.

[Rickf1985]

I am going to ask a question here that may or may not have an answer. I know for sure on the rear it is just a matter of removing everything down to the spindle and putting a later setup back on the spindle with the newer hubs and bold pattern. The Dana rears were pretty much the same throughout. The front seems to be the problem and it is here I don't have the experience some of you dedicated motor home enthusiasts might have. When you break down a front wheel and hub assembly all they way it is the same as the rear, you end up with a spindle. Can't you find the later parts, hub, bearings and backing plate, that will bolt onto that spindle assembly or at least adapt safely without major modifications?

[khantroll]

Rick,


On the front, you have to change everything from the king pin out to a different setup. Honestly, at that point an axle swap makes more sense if it is possible.


For our Winnebagos, parts are hard to find in a complete setup. In the case of M500 and M600, they are rare but their are one piece rim options out there. For the 6 lugs, Wheels Now offers new one piece rims. 8 lugs are standard. 5 lug setups can use later RV wheels that use 8R19.5, which are common around areas with RVs.

[Rickf1985]

Gotcha, I was just wondering what the differences were in the early to late hub designs were. If it is just bearing sizes that can be overcome with adapter bearings that have non standard inner or outer race sizes. If it is backing plate bolt patterns for the brake hardware that could just be a matter of redrilling the holes. But if the spindle itself is altogether different in length then there is a problem. I hate kingpins! The old pressed in ones were a real treat! That was one job that I farmed out in my shop once one of the other shops in the area got a hydraulic setup for doing the king pins. He sent me electrical and I sent him kingpins. We were both happy although to this day I think he was sadistic liking that job. Hm? N:(