Super Charger on my 454 winne

[winime]

The other day I was tinker’n with the ol’ Winnie, deciding whether or not to remove the A.I.R. pumps, Just for fun I removed the 1” hose on the right diverter valve, and cranked her up, and ”GOOD GOSH GERTIE WHATA GUSH OF AIR CAME OUT” would blow your hat off 10’ away, I thought,” WOW SUPER-CHARGER”, couldn’t wait to get started.
The next day I rolled and welded up a 5” dia. X 5” high can with 5/16 hole in top center, a 3” air horn on the front, (for COLD-AIR-INTAKE), a 1” Pipe nipple on each side, (for IN-COMING  AIR FROM A.I.R. PUMPS), 1/2” pipe nipple on back, (for HOSE FROM RIGHT VALVE COVER), I painted with black simi-gloss, and bolted it on the old Quadra Jet.
DAY 2: REMOVE all excess vacuum lines and other unused stuff:
1.      Remove Diverter valve from right valve cover. Re-connect 1” hose to right side nipple on the can.
2.      Remove Diverter valve on back of top A.I.R., Hacksaw off the flange & 1” barbed fitting on the valve and, bolt it on the back on the A.I.R. pump, connect 1” hose to left side 1” nipple. On the can.
3.      Trace wire from diverter valves to the vacuum relay switch (left side fire wall next to fuel pump relay) Remove it. (By the way this will fix that pesky little Check Engine Light that you haven’t been able to find).
4.      Remove and plug all vacuum lines except 3/8 PVC (low front center), and the two lines to the charcoal fuel canister and carb. (1/4” low right front of carb).  Bowl vent (3/8” high center of carb.), Distributor (1/4” left side bottom of carb.). Transmission and cruise control, along with power brakes, go to manifold vacuum.
DAY 3: HOOK UP COLD AIR INTAKES:
I used a spectra (The big cone shaped one) started just above the grill out in front of the radiator, then piped it in with 3” galv. Stove pipe and few adjustable elbows, wrapped with silver duct tape. It went right through the original hole in the cowling, came right over the top of engine to air horn on the can.
Remove the two 1” A.I.R.  intake lines from the so called filter (mine was under the right fender well) I used another Spectra (little smaller than the main one) connected to a 2’ piece of 3” sch. 40 PVC 45 deg. And a 22.5 deg. street L. and a 3” end cap.
Drill two holes in the end cap big enough to glue in two 1” male adapters hook hose’s to one end, air filter to the other end. That’s pretty much it.
Took her out for a little drive about 5 mi. Really sounds, and feels different, Seems like she has quite a bit more pep, I’m looking forward to a real road trip 200 mi. or more to see if it makes any difference in mpg.
See ya on flip flop, Ron

[eXodus]

Interesting !  Very cool Idea. Just googled the Air-Pump - and yes indeed they are just built like any other supercharger.   Moving a lot of air through engine power.

Have you got an exhaust sensor ? I would keep my eyes open if you maybe starting to get burning to lean.
I have no idea how this works with an carburetor. 

You should get much more bottom end power, in the middle a little more and as soon the pumps can not supply as much the engine needs in higher RPMS you will loose power.

Happy testing keep posting

[winime]

Thanks for the come back eXodus,
My old Winne dose'nt have any sensors, just tail pipe and glasspacs dumped out each side in front of the duel's.
Im not shure but, I my be stepping into uncharted territory here.


Looking forward to more feed back.
Thanks Ron.

[eXodus]

hey ron,


if i built something like that i would include some kind of measurement. but i am a most times overcorrecting.
you could get a simple vacuum gauge for you system, you are producing pressure now, just get a T and plug it you vacuum system, dont want you to loose your breaks.
i did once built a turbo charged car and had to include a vaccuum pump, to much pressure.


sebastian

[MotorPro]

Been tried a million times.......pumps can not move enough air to creat any boost. Other then sounding cool they do nothing. You can gain more by just eliminating the pumps.

[eXodus]

a supercharger is nothing more then a big pump. A turbocharger is a very big pump.  So it depends on the definition of PUMP.
Both devices are proven to produce massive boost.


Sure if you get a computer fan on top of your carburetor it would probably doesn't do much.

[MotorPro]

The smog pumps produce just slightly more air than a computer fan

[MotorPro]

What is stopping the little bit of air you are pushing from blowing out your cold air intake?

[Rickf1985]

I remember going to B&M plant and they had a demo 671 supercharger set up to run so you could feel how much air it would put out at different rpms. AMAZING how much air they move! 3500 rpm with a one to one pulley and it would push you back standing in front of it. You have to figure that to be effective you have to build positive manifold pressure and you are not going to do it with a emissions pump or two.

[M & J]

Agreed. We run a supercharger on our 92 Blazer with fuel injection and it's far more involved than just a fan blowing air.

Sorry guys, but you really aren't getting much benefit from the A.I.R. pumps. Fans are rated at CFM, true forced induction is measured in PSI and any gain is surely perceived and also remember even though you are using a cold air intake, the A.I.R. pumps are pulling in hot engine compartment air which is negating any minor increase in air flow. Not to mention if you were really getting a boost from the smog pumps, you'd probably have a significant lean condition showing up. Also with a true street forced induction system you'd have to run premium to minimize pinging and retard the timing a bit for the same reason.

[pvoth1111]

Yea that's not the way it works....

[winime]

Ok Guys, I know this is nowhere close to having a real store bought "Super-Charger" but my thinking is this; The more cold air I can make available at carb. the better she'll run.
Remember I now have cool clean filtered air to the A.I.R. intakes (BOTH OF THEM) with the filter located out in front of the engine and radiator (where the cool air is).
As to MotorPro's Q.

What is stopping the little bit of air you are pushing from blowing out your cold air intake?

I considered this myself, Thats why I went to a 3" C.A. Intake instead of the 4" I originally planned on installing, figured this would help balance things out, because if Im crusing along lets say, 55 mph theres a fair amount of psi pressing thru my new spectra air filters, and I'll just bet'ya that 454 wants more air than the atmospheric pressure, plus the fact that there is a pressure drop from 3" into the 5"x5"collector can. 
I did make an interesting observation while messing around with this thing,(Kind of blows the computer fan theory) With the 3" intake off, and the 1" A.I.R lines hooked up, I can cover the 3" intake with my hand and run the front primaries wide open with no significant pull on my hand.(I thought that was fairly impressive) Although when secondaries open you can feel'er suck'n.
Out'a here for now, Ron.

[Lefty]

Just Google "Smog Pump Supercharger"... There are tons of references on it, and they all say virtually the same things. Number 1: The Smog Pump lacks the displacement to pump enough cfm for anything larger than a 5hp Briggs and Stratton. Any engine larger requires multiple pumps... One posting reported sucess in getting 3psi from two GM Pumps on a Honda 250 trail bike engine when overdriven to get 7,000rpm at the pump. (One reference cited a 350 Chevy would require 4-6 GM Pumps as a minimum arranged to overspin to 8,000rpm to achieve 5-6psi with enough cfm to feed the 350)  I'm sure a 454 would require at least 3-4 more than that.
Second: The Pumps gasket and case design will not hold up beyond just a few psi before exploding. Third: The impellers were reported to grenade when geared beyond the 5-6k rpm they were designed for.

So, knowing this, how exactly do you intend to install 10 GM Smog Pumps on your engine? And how do you plan on running the pulleys and belts for them? Bear in mind that Supercharged engines typically run much lower compression than standard engines to prevent detonation under the higher cylinder pressures. Typically in the neighborhood of 7:1-7.5:1...

[Rickf1985]

As far as the no suction on your hand you should know that these are rotary vane pumps and will bypass air if you pull more than they can pump. That means it is just pulling through the pump instead of the intake. If it makes you feel better then run with it and let us know what the long term data is.
A true supercharger will produce significant horsepower but at the cost of at least half of that added power in parasitic draw for the supercharger itself. I had a 460 ford in a pick up running a 671 blower at 33% underdrive. Dynoed at 680 HP. Broke lots of driveline parts. Got 4-6 MPG. The carburetion for a supercharger can get complicated also, it is not just cut and dry and also not as big as you think. My big block ford used two 500 CFM Holley's with a progressive linkage with mechanical secondaries. Setting that up was a chore. None of this is what you would want for a motor home. Now the newer centrifugal blowers on an injected motor might be worth looking into. A lot of money though, how long would it take to get a return on the money?

[M & J]

We run a Whipple supercharger on our 92 small block. Fuel injected.

How long does it take to get a return on the money? Within seconds of mashing the pedal to the floor Rick. 

[Rickf1985]

 :)rotflmao :)rotflmao :)rotflmao :)rotflmao

[winime]

Well guys I’ve really enjoyed all the comments and info, (Even if did deflate my balloon a bit).
But that’s ok, I had already decided to install a cold air intake, and remove the smog stuff, so I would have had to fabricate all that stuff  anyway, (with the exception of the two 1” pipe nips, which can easily be capped off), So I figured ‘WHAT THE HECK’.
I had a friend who once told me “If you’re not making mistakes, you can’t be getting much done”.
Well any way, I think I’m going to leave things as is for now.
Plan to take a little trip from Oklahoma up thru Arkansas and Missouri next month, it will be interesting to see if there’s any difference in performance or mpg. If not, Oh well it was fun and it didn’t cost much to try it.
Till next time, Ron

[Rickf1985]

As long as the air is filtered it will do no harm. Make sure the air from the pumps is entering on the outside of the filter in the air cleaner, that way if a pump self destructs you do not have bits going into the engine.

[winime]

I'm going to have to a gamble on that one Rick, both my filters are on the intake side of the pumps.
If every thing holds up this next trip, (and if I gain any performance or mpg) then I may install a stainless steel screen on the out put hoses. If there is no improvement, Well the pumps are going by by.


Later, Ron

[MotorPro]

Don't confuse the improvment from your cold air system with what the pumps are doing.

[pvoth1111]

A couple of miles down the road and that air out of those pumps isn't cold....its hot.... that pump creates drag and friction......honestly man this really is a far reaching stretch of wishful thinking.....removing the pump and associated equipment will give a much high rate of return and simplify your life.....