Engine won't start: not getting fuel

newrvguy · November 27, 2008, 01:47 AM

Hi all I am new here and new to having an RV, I just purchased a 1987 Fleetwood Pace Arrow with a 454 and it runs if I pour gas directly into the float of the carb or in the carb and will run until the gas in is used 8 -10 seconds or so. I noticed the fuel filter on the passenger side mounted to the rail is connected by two rubber hoses that are cracked and chipped the fuel filter is not clogged I can blow through it easily. The rubber hoses approx. 2 inches connecting the fuel fil to the metal lines is cracked, will that cause the engine not to get fuel? Please help I am new and not sure what to do. Also I hope this is the right place to post this. Thank you all so much!

HandyDan · December 14, 2013, 05:27 PM

You have a bad case of rubber rot, and yes, it is letting air into the gas line. You might, also, have a bad fuel pump. As an '87, you probably have an electric fuel pump in the gas tank as well as a mechanical one on the motor. Either or both could be bad. I would start with the cheaper stuff and replace all the rubber hoses from the gas tank to the carb. Most of it is small lengths. The fact that the motor runs is a good sign. Fuel delivery problems are fairly easy to fix.
Dan

joev · December 14, 2013, 05:53 PM

if the fuel pumps are working and your getting fuel to the carb the excelerator pump in carb is most likely done

newrvguy · December 14, 2013, 06:50 PM

I am going to replace the rubber lines tomorrow and see if that fixes it. If not I will let you guys know thank you SOO much for the help so far I am a newbie but very excited and when it fires over it sounds good. Also Should I add more gas I added 5 gallons of fresh gas to the tank since it had been sitting for a year and a half or so.

joev · December 14, 2013, 07:02 PM

how much gas is in the tank if you have more than 1/4 tank i would put in some gas stabilzer
MotoMaster Fuel Stabilizer

just another thought stale gas doesnt run very good and if you put fresh gas in the carb to get it going once running the stale gas will run that could be the problem maybe you just need to add some stabilizer and fresh gas or drain the tank and fresh gas

newrvguy · December 14, 2013, 11:15 PM

About a quarter tank I added 5 gallons, Thank you I will put the stabilizer in tomorrow after I change the rubber lines. I really appreciate everyone's help i will keep you all posted. I appreciate it THANK YOU.

LJ-TJ · December 14, 2013, 11:39 PM

So here's my two cents. Disconnect the gas line between the fuel pump and the gas tank. Take a piece of hose and connect it to the fuel pump and stick the other end in a gas can of fresh fuel. Get one of those mustard/catchup squiters and fill it with gas and pour a bit in the carb and give her a try. If she starts keep squitering a little gas in the carb in order to give the fuel pump a chance to pick up the gas in the gas can. If she keeps running on her own then there's a problem between the fuel filter to the gas tank. The fuel pump is good. Hm?

ClydesdaleKevin · December 15, 2013, 08:22 AM

Its always a good idea to replace the rubber fuel hoses when our coaches are as old as they are, so go ahead and try that.

Also, with the key in the run position, try to listen at the gas tank for a humming sound to make sure your fuel pump in the tank is running. You might have to have someone crank the engine to do this, since there is a safety on that fuel pump that requires engine oil pressure to run it. Regardless of whether or not the fuel pump in the gas tank is working, the mechanical pump on the engine block should still run your engine at idle...the one in the tank is a secondary to prevent vapor lock.

Also, since you probably have the original Rochester Quadrajet carburetor, don't forget the tiny little fuel filter in the carburetor itself. You'll find it by following the metal fuel line that screws into the carburetor...you unscrew that line, then unscrew that big nut on the front of the carb, and the little fuel filter is in there with a spring and gasket. Note the way it goes in and replace it the same way.

Kev

newrvguy · December 15, 2013, 10:05 PM

Hi all thanks for the advice so far almost there...Ok so today I replaced all the the rubber hoses with brand new 1/2 in fuel line. Kev i checked the filter at the carb and it is good also replaced the inline fuel filter on the pass side rail and from there I put a hose directly into a 5 gallon gas can and it started right up and idles and reved just fine. So, that must mean the carb and mechanical fuel pump work fine, right?.. Now what should I try to get the gas from the tank to the carb? I have put 10 gallons of fresh gas in it with stabilizer. If I need to pull the fuel tank filter can I cut a hole in the floor to acces the fuel sending unit thing? Since the carpet is out and make an access panel before I install a new floor. Thank again for all the help almost there!! I;m so excited to drive it.

LJ-TJ · December 15, 2013, 10:34 PM

My kick at the cat would be. 1) See if you can follow the fuel line back to the fuel tank just in case the PO in stalled another inline fuel filter . Do you have access to an air hose or an air pig. What I would do is take the gas cap off the gas tank and then at the end of the fuel line at the fuel pump blow air back through the fuel line back to the fuel tank. You should here it bubble if that's the case then the fuel line is clear. Rehook it up to the fuel pump and give her a try. Then we can go from there. Hm?

tiinytina · December 16, 2013, 09:26 AM

Just 2 cents... 10 gal in an 80 gal tank is a "drop in the bucket" (P30 chassis 454 = usually 80 gal tank) .... i'm guessing there may be sediment (or water in the gas at bottom if rig sat with almost empty tank) simply blocking the end of the tube into the tank... if not parked level... and if its water you'll have to add lots more dry-gas....

Tina

Oz · December 16, 2013, 01:30 PM

Quote from: newrvguy on December 15, 2013, 10:05 PM
If I need to pull the fuel tank filter can I cut a hole in the floor to acces the fuel sending unit thing? Since the carpet is out and make an access panel before I install a new floor.

The answer to that is yes, and a detailed topic on it is here. I posted the link as a reply on another relevant topic about fuel lines on the Chevy board.

http://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php/topic,7783.0.html

Froggy1936 · December 16, 2013, 01:46 PM

Just a tip : With dry gas use only the type with Isopropanol (alcohol) It mixes with the water and makes it flamable, so the engine burns it . The other type is just an anti freeze that stops the water from freezing and blocking the syestem . It will not eliminate the water ! Frank

newrvguy · December 16, 2013, 10:13 PM

Thanks everyone headed over to work on the RV again on Wednesday I'm going to try to blow air back into the tank from the fuel filter located on the passenger side rail. then try starting it... If not will have to look into cutting a hole in the floor to access the in tank fuel pump. Wish me luck..

LJ-TJ · December 17, 2013, 07:45 AM

Never thought to ask, have you got one tank or two? If you've got two are you drawing from the tank with the fuel. Trust me you wouldn't be the first to draw off the wrong tank if that's the case. Tina had a good idea as well maybe take an extra can of gas or two and put more fuel in the tank. Good luck. Can't wait till Wed. night to see how you make out. Hm?

newrvguy · December 19, 2013, 10:35 PM

Hi all SHE's RUNNING all the great advice paid off I blew out the gas line gently with my mouth added 40 more gallons of gas and took it for a 60 mile "shakedown" drive. So now it's time for 5 new batteries and then the renovation continues. Thank you all so much again I will keep you all posted on the progress and I will have to get the generator to stay running next.

LJ-TJ · December 19, 2013, 11:32 PM

You better keep us up to speed or we'll hunt you down

newrvguy · December 20, 2013, 12:11 AM

I will for sure TJ next project is 4 6 volt batteries and one 1150 CCA cranking battery. This weekend I have heard this is a good setup. Let me lnow your thoughts.

Oz · December 21, 2013, 09:29 PM

Which will be a new topic so everyone can follow it!

NiftyBetty · September 06, 2018, 12:47 AM

Hi, folks. I am so frustrated with this problem. I'll try to make a long story short. First, after futzing around last year, discovered sediment in gas tank was clogging fuel filter and causing loss of power. Refurbished gas tank, reinstalled, and mechanic says he checked all the lines, etc. (also got my fuel gauge working) last fall. Sat over winter with nearly full tank, started occasionally and ran generator occasionally. Started right up every time. Had transmission work done in Spring. Was running fine. Sat in driveway, ran generator and engine occasionally. Drove it to mechanic. Had inspection (horn that used to work no longer works-- telling you this just in case this may be related to something). All was OK except horn (!). Friday, started fine, took to mechanic. He had a hard time getting it started, turned over and over until finally started. Sat over night. Saturday, all packed for Labor Day weekend, started right up first try, drove about 10 miles, stopped for gas. Filled tank to full from about 15 gallons. Engine would not start. Cranked and cranked. Tow truck driver pulled in and nicely helped. Charger put on both batteries. He says it sounded to him like engine is not getting fuel, cranking and cranking depleted battery. What the heck? Towed it to mechanic, again. What do you think? Also, there are four toggle switches in a row across the bottom of the dash console right below where radio is. First one turns on radio, second one I'm told is for the fuel pump, third one turns on circle of LED's around upgraded headlights, fourth one is empty. I'm told the fuel pump toggle should always be left in on position- never heard of such a thing. Winnie is right now sitting at mechanic's. What should he look for to fix this problem? Do you think the gas tank is still bad? Maybe the fuel lines are not clear? Did topping off the tank trigger something that blocked fuel again? What's the deal with the switch for the fuel pump? Sounds logical to me that it's a fuel delivery problem. Any help will be greatly appreciated.

LJ-TJ · September 06, 2018, 08:28 AM

Well first thing I'd do is take the air filter off and look down the carb while pumping it by hand and see if it's squirting fuel in the carb. I'd also disconnect the fuel line at the carb and then turn the fuel pump on to see if the electric fuel pump is pumping. If your getting fuel to the carb then my second guess would be spark. Possibly the voltage regulator or electronic ignition box. Could even be a bad coil. You get spark when shes cold but as soon as it warms up it breaks down.

Hm?

Rickf1985 · September 06, 2018, 08:40 AM

Those years of Chrysler's were famous for bad ignition modules and pickups in the distributor. Be sure to check for a good blue spark along with the fuel check. Pull the line off of the carb and turn the ignition on and see if fuel comes out of the line right away, if it does then the electric pump is on and working. If no fuel try cranking it and see if the mechanical pump is moving any gas. If not then you have your answer, the problem is in the fuel system somewhere again. It is impossible for us to diagnose an added in electric pump like that since we have absolutely no idea how it was plumbed or wired. It may or may not be wired through an oil pressure safety switch. What you can try is turn the ignition on with the switch down and have someone lay under the tank and listen for a hum and then flip the switch up, if it comes on they should be able to hear it. If the pump is outside of the tank then diagnosing it is much easier with a meter.

NiftyBetty · September 06, 2018, 11:43 AM

Thanks, guys. I will share this with my mechanic. I can tell you that I did hear that hum when I flipped that fuel pump switch off, then on. I am determined to get this baby travelin'.

NiftyBetty · September 12, 2018, 02:59 PM

Well, y'all, my mechanic has determined that it is not a fuel delivery problem. I did need new batteries as both tested at replacement level. After that, she started right up. He continued to start her periodically over time and she started immediately 3 or 4 times, but then on the next try-- nothing. He says he went underneath and hit the starter and she started right up, so he thinks I need a new starter. However, several other posts I've read here talk about a starter relay and adjacent wiring and one also indicated there is some connection there for the horn which I mentioned in my first post is suddenly not working. Does replacing the starter seem like the obvious choice to fix my problem? Are there other things I should ask him to do while he is in there and I am spending money on it, like replace the starter relay or wiring connections? i wouldn't trouble you again except that if I take her back only to be disabled out on the road one more time, I may hurt somebody.

Anything you can offer will be appreciated.

BTW, I'm trying to post a picture but I get a message saying my attachment is too large . I will work on that.

Rickf1985 · September 12, 2018, 05:35 PM

Well we went from fuel to starter and batteries. So that makes me want to ask was it actually turning over at all before? It could be a starter, it could be a relay. That is something that is going to be impossible to diagnose on a forum, that is something that has the be done in person. One thing I can tell you is that if you give most mechanics free rein to do and replace anything they could possibly suspect then you are going to end up with a bill that far exceeds the value of the motor home. An honest mechanic will not do this but I don't know if this guy you have is someone you know or the guy down the street. I NEVER replace a part without fully diagnosing it to be bad.