Changing of the belts, or Bloody Knuckle dance!

FastGlassman69 · January 01, 2015, 06:04 PM

Anyone have a plan to change all the drivebelts on my 88 Cheiftain with the 454 and dual airpumps without having to get a transfusion? Otherwise i'm just going to pull the condensor and radiator and just do everything on the front of the motor. It runs great and I was hoping to wait for warmer weather to do the timing chain and all , but i'm so sore from slicing myself up! Is there a less painful process to change the belts without taking out the radiator? Thanx, Bob

M & J · January 01, 2015, 07:00 PM

No, I'm not planning on changing all the belts on your Winnie.

But many of us have done it. Just search for belts and there are several threads. The way you describe is probably the most common.

Oz · January 01, 2015, 07:04 PM

The message search can be the fastest way to access a wealth of information and tap the shared experience of many members. When you find the related topics, if you still have questions, just add them to the one that fits your issue the best.

Oz · January 01, 2015, 07:28 PM

Diagrams of the belts, and part numbers are available in the first topic listed below.

454 belt failure
causes for 454 belt failure

eXodus · January 06, 2015, 11:38 AM

there is modern innovation called "workshop gloves" the are very effective in keeping the blood inside the body.

if you got a helping pair of hand which crawls under the engine then you could do anything without removing the radiator.
with 4 hands working its pretty fAst and done in a couple of hours.

i saw my ac shop guys removing all belts and getting them back on in under 30min. but they do it for a living. one guy laying on the engine the other underneath

Rickf1985 · January 06, 2015, 12:24 PM

Get Tina to do it for you. There is a reason she is called "Tiiny". She can fit in there where us old fat guys don't have a chance. :)rotflmao N:( Even as a master mechanic there were some vehicles I just dreaded and these are it. The power steering pump is the worst to tighten, it is damn near impossible to get to the rear inner bolt and then there is the issue of holding tension on the belt at the same time.

eXodus · January 07, 2015, 07:14 AM

I'm always missing my second pair of hands, i hope that nature or science makes them available at some point in time.

imagine a second pair emerging from your belly with two or three elbows to reach difficult positions.

FastGlassman69 · January 07, 2015, 05:52 PM

Quote from: Rickf1985 on January 06, 2015, 12:24 PM
Get Tina to do it for you. There is a reason she is called "Tiiny". She can fit in there where us old fat guys don't have a chance. :)rotflmao N:( Even as a master mechanic there were some vehicles I just dreaded and these are it. The power steering pump is the worst to tighten, it is damn near impossible to get to the rear inner bolt and then there is the issue of holding tension on the belt at the same time.

Lol,I like that idea! Too damn cold for me to do it now. But seeing that my Winnie has 78000 on the clock, I think i'll do the radiator R&R thing and do all the stuff on the front of the motor while I am at it. Hopefully I won't need to get in there for quite awhile after that! Plus I don't like all the road gunk and stuff all over, some pressure washing, primer and rustoleum is in order. Oh and I found a neat little tool at Harbor Freight- it's a compact needle scaler makes shot work of any rust and roughs up whatever paint is left on the frame so you can paint it ! Worked great on the frame around the rear end and looks much nicer! Bob

FastGlassman69 · January 07, 2015, 05:58 PM

Ha, don't think i'll be getting the missus under there! But she is ready to go,somewhere ,anywhere,LOL! Told me to just get it done and not to try and "make a silk purse out of a sows ear " out of it? Whatever, she knows I get carried away cleaning things and making it less greasy for the next time I have to get under the rig. Did it for all the 34 years I've known her so, get over it! Bob

Wbago · March 19, 2015, 07:05 AM

Done it??? ... just been looking at mine, lower one is shiny, gonna get a mech to swap em out soon, i wondered how your job went

... same motor, mines an 87, in the UK

FastGlassman69 · March 19, 2015, 08:51 AM

Yes I did it! I ended up taking the radiator/condensor/oil cooler out and then got rid of the two air pumps and misc brackets. Cleaned up the motor nicely and now it doesn't look like such a hassle to tighten/replace them in the future. Had to get different belts from stock but IMHO it is the most practical route if you don't have emmissions inspection. Bobby W%

JerryP · March 19, 2015, 10:16 AM

This is at the top of my list. Belts are squeaking, and I got to poking around in there, looking for the easiest way, and noticed the air pump belt is gone, and the pump itself seems to be locked up.
Going to research it, and see about removing the pump and whatever is attached to it, and replacing the belts.
Insert sad lazy face here...
Probably be simplest for me to pull the radiator as I work by myself.

Rickf1985 · March 19, 2015, 12:31 PM

You will find that pulling the radiator is MUCH easier said than done! There is a TON of stuff attached to the radiator support that needs to come off and you also have to remove or really bend the condenser out of the way.

circleD · March 19, 2015, 12:44 PM

I agree with Rick on this. There's so many brackets and other do dads attached to it and hoping you don't break anything pulling it out. By the time you tie up all the stuff that's hanging down and work around it. You'd wish you would've just went at it by lying on the motor and ground.

Hahn007 · March 19, 2015, 03:23 PM

I recently changed out all belts on mine.
Working from the top only, wasn't too bad at all.

MotorPro · March 19, 2015, 04:51 PM

I'm not going to say that changing the belts is a fun job but it really isn't bad. Probably took about 30 to 45 minutes. Can not imagine why anyone would even consider taking out the radiator to do it. Kind of like pulling the engine to do an oil change.

Rickf1985 · March 19, 2015, 06:25 PM

Everything you see in the picture had to come off to get the radiator out. (except the mower deck, it might as well have though!) And this is not all of it, a lot is wired up inside the engine compartment.

Wbago · March 19, 2015, 06:37 PM

definitely not looking to remove the rad on mine, has LPG fitted, is a little bit complex in there, tanks are in front so less room too ...
... mechanic came today, is of the opinion that itll be ok without removing, so looking to bypass the not-working a/c pump, and replace other belts, seems the AIR pumps are already removed so should be 3 to replace?.. . .

tiinytina · March 19, 2015, 07:25 PM

Air Gone - look it up here... been there did that. Belts.. yea just do them not worth all the rad stuff unless you need a new rad anyway... that said if you do take it out clean etc. but still not worth all that to get the belts out. and BTW the worst bloody knuckles are in replacing front coil spring airbags... you think the belts are wicked.. again search that topic.. lol....

Tina

tiinytina · March 19, 2015, 07:26 PM

oh and once you do change them minus the AIR system... ALWAYS carry an extra set because after AIR removed the belt size is no longer stock....

FastGlassman69 · March 19, 2015, 10:36 PM

Quote from: JerryP on March 19, 2015, 10:16 AM

This is at the top of my list. Belts are squeaking, and I got to poking around in there, looking for the easiest way, and noticed the air pump belt is gone, and the pump itself seems to be locked up.
Going to research it, and see about removing the pump and whatever is attached to it, and replacing the belts.
Insert sad lazy face here...
Probably be simplest for me to pull the radiator as I work by myself.

I too end up working by myself and i'm glad I pulled the radiator! I looked in the lower hose pipe and though the radiator didn't leak , I could see all the tubes were about 60% clogged, tried to get it rodded out but they wanted $200 with no guarantee, so I went for a 5 row recore for $540 with a 2 year guarantee and I am glad I did. All the way to and in Florida she never goes over 1/2 on the temp gauge and no leaks, I couldn't imagine what it would cost on the road to fix it as it took me a while to get it out! I relocated the hydraulic pump for the levelers as it was right in front of the radiator, now I can crawl up in there and stand up for the most part and work semi-comfortably. If you would like you can PM me and I will get the numbers off the Gates belt sleeves that I used, I set it up for the ribbed belt to the alternator and 2 belts to the p/s and A/c. Once you eliminate the air pumps everything is accessible from the top, it worked out great! Bobby

FastGlassman69 · March 19, 2015, 10:45 PM

Quote from: tiinytina on March 19, 2015, 07:26 PM
oh and once you do change them minus the AIR system... ALWAYS carry an extra set because after AIR removed the belt size is no longer stock....

I hear you Tina on carrying xtras but my compartments are starting to overflow, feel like i'm operating a mobile truck repair shop, with the 4 ton floorjack, bottle jack, Jackstands and toolboxes! Then the fact that I can't bring all my stuff with me makes me buy more stuff everytime I see tools or supplies, LOL, I must STOP! Bobby W%

TerryH · March 20, 2015, 12:19 AM

To be honest here, if you were changing belts and discovered rad issues, doesn't really relate to the belts. I agree that belt replacement should not include rad removal. Rad removal is very close to a major operation - belt replacement is really not.
Sound as though you discovered rad issues and dealt with them. Great. Not belt issues though.

FastGlassman69 · March 20, 2015, 09:51 AM

You are quite right, had I been the original owner of this MH and knew its maintanance history, and everything not been covered in dirt and rust , I too would have not pulled the radiator. But that was not the case and I wanted to clean everything up and make sure everything was good on the front of the motor. We all have our own ways to do things, no two are exactly the same, but they all get the job done! I now know where everything is and have busted loose all hard to get at bolts , so that I won't kill myself trying to do repairs on the road as they come up. Nothing can ruin your day more then busting your butt to fix something on the road and snapping an inaccessible bolt or rounding one off and not having the equipment to get it out! Bobby
D:oH!

JerryP · March 22, 2015, 11:37 PM

Today I pulled out all the smog pumps, and got the belts tightened up.
As far as changing the belts, pulling out the smog pumps was worth the time if only to have easy access to the belts, and pulleys.
turned the belt tightening into a 5 minute job. Took me longer to get out the tools than to do the job,