A.I.R. system removal

Flanders · January 19, 2015, 01:34 PM

Hi everyone, my name is Dan and this is my first post. My wife and I just graduated from pop-up camping to vintage RV camping. We recently acquired a 1989 Itasca Sunflyer 31RQ. It is in pretty good shape despite it's less than stellar upkeep and maintenance. I love that my wife is even more excited than me to have it. I like fixing up old vehicles and she likes interior decorating so this should be a great "togetherness" project for us.
My question is not due to wanting "a few extra horsepower", but rather - I don't want to repair and maintain this broken system. I have many small holes in the injection tubes right where they go into the exhaust manifolds. This makes for a bad exhaust leak sound and even gives off an odor when parked and idling.
I know what the purpose of the system is/was and I see why it was necessary at the time, but I would like to remove it rather than try to repair it. I know it is not emissions tested an I am almost certain that it is visual emissions exempted in my county, but I will know for sure tonight as I have an appointment for state safety inspection.
If I remove it, is it nothing more than removal of all tubing, hoses, valves, pump and then plugging of all exposed "holes" and the addition of a shorter belt (not sure if other accessories use the AIR pump's belt)?
I've also read that some say the A/F mixture will also need to be adjusted. Advice? Thanks in advance!!

M & J · January 19, 2015, 05:40 PM

We have a number of threads on this subject as several members have done this. Use the search box and enter AIR or 454 belts or variations.

Rickf1985 · January 19, 2015, 07:58 PM

Nice looking rig and man does it sit low in the rear. Does it happen to have the Jet Ride air suspension on the rear? One of those AIR articles that OR&R was talking about is mine, feel free to send pm's asking questions. I have not yet removed the tubing on the manifolds since I have to remove at least the right manifold for a new gasket.

Oz · January 19, 2015, 08:06 PM

Search results for topics on AIR removal:

http://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php/topic,9602.msg50877.html#msg50877

http://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php/topic,9602.msg50877.html#msg50877

Prefer asking questions on related topics rather than sending PMs. That way, everyone gets to benefit.

Flanders · January 20, 2015, 01:06 PM

Quote from: Rickf1985 on January 19, 2015, 07:58 PM
Nice looking rig and man does it sit low in the rear. Does it happen to have the Jet Ride air suspension on the rear? One of those AIR articles that OR&R was talking about is mine, feel free to send pm's asking questions. I have not yet removed the tubing on the manifolds since I have to remove at least the right manifold for a new gasket.

Thanks for the compliment, yes it has the Jetco air suspension, and yes it is currently not working. That is on my ever-growing to do list, and quickly rising to the top. I have manually aired up the tank to 100 psi, but nothing seems to be going into the bags. I will begin trouble shooting very soon. I know there is a pressure switch between the the battery and the compressor, so I will be checking that out.

Flanders · January 20, 2015, 01:11 PM

Thanks for the links to the other related posts. Quite a bit of good reading there! A big thanks to sparky for his diligence in documenting the work - wow!

I am still digging though it all, but I know that thread is going to yield lots of answers to my upcoming questions.

Rickf1985 · January 20, 2015, 05:28 PM

In our members section on here in the manuals we have the Jet-ride manuals. The company is still in business and can still get you parts and advice although the advice seems to be a little on the "dry" side. The owner of the company that made this system is still there and will help you out but I will warn you he is not a very talkative fellow, all business.
Make sure you are getting power to the jet ride controls up front. I would suggest opening up another thread for the suspension. May be a short list of help since you are the only other one I have found so far with it.

Flanders · January 20, 2015, 08:33 PM

Thanks Rick. I did download the Jet Ride manual and it has provided all I need to attack the trouble shooting with confidence. I just need to get to Harbor Freight and pick up a 12 ton pneumatic/hydraulic bottle jack and a pair of 6 ton stands.
I also have a good plan of attack for the AIR system removal. The P30 manuals I downloaded here yielded this very informative diagram. I highlighted everything I plan to remove. My only concern is Helga may run a little rich afterwards since there may be a bit more unburned fuel going into the exhaust. Does anyone know if this can be accomplished without going in through the front (removing radiator, fan, shroud etc)? It seems like underneath and through the doghouse might work.

M & J · January 20, 2015, 10:56 PM

Theres also going to be a ton of vacuum lines to remove/reroute and your check engine light if equipped may stay on.

Rickf1985 · January 21, 2015, 06:48 AM

Typing with a migraine headache so will keep it short. Top pump will be easy, bottom pump will be a challenge. Leave all of the hoses that are hooked up to the evap canisters in place or you will have fume problems. The check engine light will come on but if you unplug the sensor on the air cleaner it goes off. You will want to leave the mount on the front unless you have the ability to make spacers to put in the gaps that will be left behind the A/C bracket. I will get into better detail when I can find my head. D:oH! i??

circleD · January 21, 2015, 09:31 PM

Utilizing the search box there is ALOT of info and tips about this. Without creating another thread you can basically remove your alternator and approach from the top then through the fenderwell. It MAY seem its more work to remove other objects to get to another but its NOT. It helps you find out what goes where and less blood on knuckles. Plus replace other stuff while you're in there. I promise that there's plenty of threads to read completely through to make you feel knowledgeable about doing it. I did.

Oz · January 21, 2015, 09:47 PM

I'm clicking the "like" button on that.

M & J · January 21, 2015, 11:11 PM

What am I missing? I dont have a Like button.

Flanders · June 25, 2015, 01:49 PM

Can anyone CONFIRM that an M22x1.5 plug is what is needed to fill the threaded holes on the exhaust manifolds of a 1989 Chevy P30 454? I can order 8 of them from the U.K. off ebay, but don't want to have to return them if they don't fit. I've read every post I can find and have not been able to confirm this myself. Since I work on Helga in my driveway on weekends, I want to have all the parts before I start tearing things down. Subdivision frowns on people working on CARS in the driveway, much less giant RV's

davecaprita · June 25, 2015, 06:48 PM

Not sure and they may have changed but our 87 model used 7/8 by 18 flair NPT threads. Any pictures of your manifold? Our pics showing our AIR removal and manifold plugs are at Newtome Chieftain22.

Flanders · June 25, 2015, 07:40 PM

Yes! Those pictures are great

. I'll bet my manifolds are identical to yours. Thanks a million Dave. Here is a pic of my passenger side manifold in case someone sees something I missed.

DaveVA78Chieftain · June 25, 2015, 07:44 PM

Newtome Chieftain22

Did you see this in his pics?
Applied Fluid Systems of Pelham, Alabama created perfect replacement plugs for this project.

Flanders · June 25, 2015, 09:51 PM

Yes, I saw the pics. No, I didn't read the captions D:oH! . I missed the part about having to get them custom made. I wonder what that cost...? Applied Fluid Systems doesn't list an email address so I'll have to give them a call.I see that the metric M22x1.5 is very close by comparison. 18 TPI is equal to 1.41 mm and the pitch diameters are even closer than that. I'll bet you can get a few turns before it locks up. Any real world trials been done out there?

Rickf1985 · June 26, 2015, 07:01 AM

The original is not a pipe thread so any pipe plug is going to get tight real quick. I can tell you it is a really fine thread. Once you take out that piece you are talking about be sure to pull out the tube that is inside the manifold that protrudes into the exhaust port of the head. That may be worth a half a horsepower plus without the tube holding it it will rattle something terrible. Eight of them rattling would be quite the racket!

davecaprita · June 26, 2015, 08:22 AM

You're right! They weren't cheap but compared to the other options I read about, 1 that involved welding pennies to the manifold, I decided it was best to invest in a solution that was as permanent as possible. You may be able to get a local fabricator to do the same thing. It was simply choosing the appropriate gauge steel and using the equipment many fabricators/craftsmen have at their disposal. 7/8 x 18 NPT threads aren't new, they're kind of rare in automotive situations but not unknown to most metal fabricators. Maybe someone on the site here may know of a set of thread dies with a 7/8 x 18 NPT included. Hope this is helpful.

Rickf1985 · June 26, 2015, 09:43 AM

Or just get a welder to weld the tube nuts closed. Might be a lot cheaper. It is best to weld them while they are installed though since they will change dimension due to heat and may not go back in if welded outside of the manifold. Although a good welder with a TIG unit and a heat sink could do it.

cncsparky · June 26, 2015, 12:45 PM

Quote from: cncsparky on July 07, 2014, 01:05 PM
A quick search I found Doorman # 65231 drain plug is 7/8-18 and found some peeps using them for exhaust manifold plugs. Get them at rock auto for about $2 ea.

MotorPro · June 26, 2015, 12:51 PM

I just took out the fittings cut the tubes out of the fittings ,welded up the hole in the fitting and put them back in. No leaks at all.

Flanders · June 26, 2015, 05:09 PM

Awesome Sauce! Just ordered them. Thank you cncsparky!!!

Flanders · September 02, 2015, 01:43 PM

Well, I finally got around to doing this. After realizing that Helga's alternator was no longer working, I thought this would be an ideal time to tackle the AIR system removal.

The only reason I wanted to remove the system was because the thin wall steel air tubes going to the exhaust manifolds had lots of small rust holes in them that were leaking exhaust and I could not find a suitable replacement part. If I ever have to replace the alternator again it will be much easier with all that junk out of the way.

The whole job took about 6 hours and I am not very familiar with Helga's engine compartment. The worst part of it was removing the rusted in air tube fittings on the exhaust manifolds. After using a cut off wheel to separate the tubes from the fittings, I first tried an impact gun but it did NOTHING at all. I ended up needing a 24" breaker bar with another 24" floor jack handle to break them loose.
Helga is now about 40 pounds lighter and runs like a champ. Nice and quiet. The tips and tricks gleaned from this forum were priceless - I thank you all. From the pipe plug part number to the belt part number, everything went perfectly. Here are a couple before and after pics. The one of all the AIR parts is actually missing the system's air filter canister that I removed after the picture was taken.