MSD Ignition Kit 440 What da ya think

[LJ-TJ]

Hey gang I've been thinking of changing out my stock Dodge ignition system for a complete MSD system. Good/Bad and thoughts. Good idea, bad idea. The only reason I'm thinking of it is to up grade to something a little newer. Thanks in advance.

[HamRad Mobile]

Good morning; 

     There is some merit in making that conversion: 

     (1.)  It was the Dodge/Chrysler/Plymouth "Pointless" ignition system back in the late 1960s that introduced us to inductive pick-up triggered ignition systems, and also to the need for something truly bigger than a Group 22 battery when trying to start a 440 wedge engine in the Winter.  Often you could not turn the engine fast enough to get enough magnetic flux change to develop the needed voltage in the pick-up coil to have the ignition trigger system realize that it was time. 

     (2.)  The difference in the quality of the spark developed by a Capacitive Dischage Ignition (CDI) system is impressive.  The voltage levels achievable and the rise-time to get to that voltage is notable.  However, it will also test the integrity of your high tension spark plug wiring.  You might find that one of the "hot rod" larger diameter spark plug wiring kits will be helpful. 

     (3.)  By the way, CDI systems are not really a recent development.  The original ones were made by Robert Bosch Gmbh. for the Luftwaffe back in World War II for use in their fighters, because it eliminated the engine warm-up time required by the more standard magnetos.   They could get off the ground much more quickly.  However, the reliability of the high voltage switch they used, a Thyratron (a vacuum tube equivalent of the solid state SCR or Silicon Controlled Rectifier), in a fighter engine environment was not always that good, and it could really be embarrassing if you have just done a quick split-S trying to evade a pursuing Spitfire or P-38, and your engine stops running.  They went back to using just the standard magnetos back then. 

    (4.)   The Multiple Spark Discharge (MSD) CDI ignition system has been around for a long time, and it has proven to be reasonably reliable.  One suggestion that I have is to mount the box somewhere away from sources of heat, such as the exhaust system and the air from the radiator, and away from any water that may be splashed up from the wheels, and if you can get some fresh cooling air flowing toward it (like what you want to go into the carburetor or other induction system), that will really help with CDI system longevity.   

     (5.)  While there is an MSD model that will work directly with your existing distributor, I chose to change the distributor in my motor home engine for one with a Hall Cell ignition timing trigger device that does not have a minimum distributor rotation speed to develop a trigger voltage level that will be recognized by the rest of the ignition system as the signal that it is time to fire the spark plug for that cylinder, and the CDI box in the motor home is the basic simple one that MSD sells.   The distributor that I have is made by the Pertronix people (formerly PerLux), and I had used their PerLux "Ignitor" in the Autollite distributor in my 1970 Ford Econoline "ClubWagon" van 302 cid V8 engine as the trigger source for the old CDI box that I had built back in 1967 from the article published in EDN (Electronic Design News).  I still have that old CDI box.   It worked very well for me, and it was part of the system package that took my fuel mileage for that 1970 Ford van from a stock 11-12 MPG up to 18 MPG cruising on the freeways at 72-73 MPH.  That 302 V8 just seemed to hit a resonance at that speed and just rolled along.  It was a well balanced system.  I can say that if there was a combustible air/fuel mixture in the combustion chamber, that CDI box fired it. 

     (6.)  I do not yet really know what effects all the work that has been done this Winter will have on my motor home.  I guess that I will learn when I start taking it out again this Spring.  But you did ask about the MSD CDI ignition system, and I can offer to you at least what I saw with my old Ford van that I ran until the late 1980s, and then it suffered a terrible demise.  I was able to salvage some of the things from it before it was taken away.  That was sad.  Lots of things in life may not turn out the way that you think they will. 

          Enjoy; 

          Ralph 
          Latte Land, Washington 

[DaveVA78Chieftain]

Been running the MSD ignition box with a stock distributor for 3 years.  Works great.
Mounted the control unit on the shelf below the dash radio so I did not worry about moisture.

Dave

[thisoldhippy]

Dave did you notice any mileage increase? Have been considering an HEI conversion with an MSD myself! 

[Randd213]

I am thinking of doing the same thing! Just switched to a power master one wire alternator and love it. Got rid of a lot of wires and external voltage regulator.

[DaveVA78Chieftain]

Dave did you notice any mileage increase? Have been considering an HEI conversion with an MSD myself!

Opp's, I just now saw this post.  I did not notice an increase gas mileage.  It does start easier though.

Dave

[GONMAD]

Having a background in the ignition industry with Jacobs Electronics & the like, I've seen  worked with a myriad of systems I've come to utilize the PERTRONICS Ignition system. They have a truly remarkable new system called 'Second Strike' ignition. They have all other accessories for ignition as well. The Second strike fires ANOTHER full power spark to the engine (sort of like having two distributors). The MSD is only multiple spark till 3500 RPM & then it reverts back to a CD ignition. The physics won't allow for MS past 3500 RPM. The second strike continues to fire up to any redline your engine has. It reminds me of the Mazda twin plug setup to run well. Here is the URL for the unit...


http://pertronix.com/prod/ig/strike/

My Jacobs system is old & will be replaced with this new technology as soon as the SNOWBIRDS return to Alva & my cashflow returns as well. I've used the other products from Pertronics with very good results so far & I've read the reviews on this product & it kind of reminds me of the twin MAGS on our Top Fuel Dragster. I like the idea of a "CLEANUP" spark to finish burning the outgoing charge.  On average an engine IN GOOD TUNE will still misfire 30% of the time on average. This NON firing was the MAIN reason for introducing the Catalytic converter to new cars to finish eliminating unburnt fuel released by the engine by increasing the PPM (parts per million) volume at the tailpipe. NOT a great idea! they could've improved on the efficiency of the engine & the ignition system as well.   The system on the Northstar Cadillacs will second strike the cylinders to complete the combustion process Cleaning up the exhaust & improving power & mileage. I have been using MSD products for a long time & they make a good product BUT they are NOT the last word on the ignition system. I like the fact they pay contingency at the track (IF you win). I like trying new stuff & the ignition can ALWAYS be improved upon. We're looking at PLASMA ignitions for the future & with the exception of the expence will be trying a Plasma system out soon. I hope this opens up another avenue for your upgrades. C YA! GONMAD