Front spring replacement nightmare.

Rickf1985 · July 12, 2015, 07:20 PM

Well, I finally got round to replacing my front springs today. Had it all planned out in my head how it was going to go and got everything together and even had the missus there to hand tools. How does that saying go? The best laid plans of mice and men? Yea right. It all went to hell in a hand basket.
Everything went pretty good up till I popped the upper ball joint and found out that it would have been just as easy to remove the Steer Safe system as it was to deal with the spring loaded hub flopping in my lap, off came the Steer Safe springs. Otherwise there was no way I was going to be able to get it lined back up with the joint. Then comes that lovely brake hose clamp that is bolted to the side of the upper control arm that has to be removed to get the caliper off. Ever try to get a wrench on the bolt head inside the control arm? Open end 1/2", angle facing down and coming in from the joint side. Trust me on this one! You will be expressing your opinion of the brilliant engineer that designed that bracket the whole time you are fighting with it, it gets better, you have to get that bolt out BEFORE you can remove the bracket! More "expressions of opinions" (cussing). Take the sway bar off BOTH sides before starting this job! I knew this, I have done similar jobs a hundred times but did I do it? NO! Put the new air bags in the new springs and since they are new and just a little longer they do not want to go in since I did not jack it up quite high enough. My 6 ton stands were maxed out and my 12 ton stands are under a friends dump truck where they have been living for 6 months. They would have given me the added height. And the added stability, suffice to say I had a bit of a scare when one of the stands decided to start leaning due to having to jack the vehicle up off of the stand on the other side while trying to compress the new spring enough to get the ball joint back in. In the process of fighting through all of this I find that the upper shock mount on the drivers side is loose in the frame and cannot be tightened. Gotta love it. All said and done I get it back on its wheels and it looks like a low rider! I gained 3 inches on the passenger side and almost 4 on the drivers side. I found that the spring on the drivers side apparently did not seat in the upper pocket so I have to try to beat it in there tomorrow but I am not happy with the excessive height gained. I was hoping for 2-2 1/2" and a little more spring rate. These are the same springs a couple of members here have used and were happy with. I got these from Stengal Spring in Pa. and they told me that these are the springs they use in all motor homes over 28 feet. They also told me to put the bags in just in case, well looks like that was 100.00 out the window! The one lucky thing I have is the Jet Ride air suspension so I can adjust my rear levelers up a bit to level it out. I am BEAT! I will add more when the brain starts working and the pain killers wear off. W%

I am WAY too old for this.

jeno · July 12, 2015, 07:32 PM

WOW to think i was thinking about doing that with mine thought i had it figured out but now i'm SCARED!!

M & J · July 12, 2015, 09:04 PM

Did you end not using the air bags Rick?

gpw9552 · July 13, 2015, 07:19 AM

Rick

I had some of the same problems 2 months ago. I got new shocks and standard rate springs from NAPA. I also gained about 3 in. Passenger side went OK. Drivers side spring didn't want to seat in the upper socket. finally got it in and I'm sure I used the same expressions you did. Same problem with the upper shock bolt. Had to use the "blue flame" wrench on it. At first I was disappointed when I got the passenger side spring out and measured it against the new spring. Same length

. I assume the compression rate on the new spring is higher since I did gain 3 in in height. One more word of caution, CHECK new shocks before you leave the store. One didn't have the small parts kit and the other one had been returned after someone tried to fit it.

Rickf1985 · July 13, 2015, 09:04 AM

The air bags are in there, I have not put any air in them yet. I am going to try to beat the drivers side spring into the pocket and see if that drops the whole front down some, I hope so. I just called the spring place and they told me that those are the springs they use in all of the bigger motorhomes so I should not have any problems with them. We shall see.

Froggy1936 · July 13, 2015, 03:25 PM

I recommend using at least a 3 ton floor jack, And working on cement or asphalt driveway , Jack up 1 side at a time far enough to let the control arm come down far enough to release the spring (using a minimum 3 ton jack stand under the frame as a safety and to support one side of veh when lowering the lower control arm ) Remove the sway bar and and any steering control additions . Disconnect only the lower ball joint. (with veh weight on the jack) The frame safety stand should be in contact with the frame at this point. lower the control arm w/or w/o air bag (deflated) Replacement is reverse of above ,Make shure spring is aligned w both upper and lower seats . Air bag can be already in the spring , Move jack out near ball joint to raise back into position and reconnect and tighten lower ball joint ,Making sure spring is aligned , Removal of tire makes it easier. Then the other side !

Rickf1985 · July 13, 2015, 07:46 PM

The problem I was having was that I was raising the vehicle off of the stand before the ball joint was engaged enough to get the nut on. I would do the lower if I were to do it again since I had to take the springs off of the Steer Safe anyway, the only thing left was the bracket for them and that is a couple u-bolts. It does not matter which ball joint it was though the problem would be the same, raising the vehicle before engaging the joint. I was able to offset that by adding air to the opposite rear air bag and force the front down. That was a little hairy though. I would suggest to anyone doing this to put jackstands under the rear frame as far back as you can once the front is jacked up and on stands. This will prevent the rear suspension from dropping and allowing the front to raise. If you keep the back from going down then the front will not raise. Do not put the stands under the back before jacking the front up or you will be trying to lift the entire vehicle and the frame will sag, or something will break.

Rickf1985 · July 19, 2015, 06:48 PM

Well, I had to do it all over again due the the fact that the upper part of the spring never went into the seat properly. This time I dropped the lower ball joint. THAT is the way to go and I don't care if you have Safe Steer or not! I do and it took me all of ten minutes per side to remove it. I have not reinstalled it yet but I did it before when it reset the springs and the installation is not bad either. Getting the springs seated into the upper pockets and lower seats at the same time while having the missus working the jack was a real treat! (NOT!!!) Yes, I still have all my fingers but that is not a job to do by yourself, at least not with the SD springs. Now I have 2 1/2" of lift in the front instead of the almost four I had before. Once I reset one of my height sensors for the rear it will sit level. The air bags call for a minimum of 40 lbs. of air for motorhomes and 20 lbs. for vans. I am going to run the 20 I think. I am also going to replace the front shocks since I believe they are beat out from the worn springs.

Bottom line, Drop the lower control arm even if you have to remove the Safe Steer bracket. No removing brakes or lines. Lower ball joint, sway bar mount and lower shock bolt. Three bolts and nuts and one nut on the ball joint.

etchamp · July 29, 2015, 09:52 PM

Rick, what were the final thoughts on the SDM springs. My Vectra is sagging enough that the front leveling jacks will not swing down and im ready to buy the springs no. I saw on the Stenglebros site that they list the SDM for over 28ft as do others. Im really not wanting to put bags back in it and thought the SDM might be the way to go.

Rickf1985 · July 30, 2015, 11:55 AM

Once I got them out and back in and seated properly on top I got around 2 1/2" of lift. Stengle did recommend putting the bags in anyway so I did but with no air I do not bottom out so I am going to run a minimum amount of air in them. Probably no more than 20-30lbs. It is very important to get the top of the spring seated on the mount correctly or you will be doing it again. I had 4" of lift the first time around! I did not realize that the top spring seal has a protrusion that has to fit inside of the spring, I am used to spring pockets that the spring will self center in. Between that and getting the bottom coil lined up in the groove in the lower control arm it is not a one person job.

eXodus · July 30, 2015, 03:27 PM

don't be to upset about the height. New springs tend to settle after a while. Not much but about half an inch - one inch could be possible in the next 6 months.

So drive around for a while and then do the alignment.

Rickf1985 · July 30, 2015, 04:22 PM

The height is fine for me and dropping a half inch would not bother me. The alignment I really want to get done due to the huge amount of shims om the control arms, I think it was set with the suspension about bottomed out. I haven't put a level on the wheels but I would guess they are cambered out now that the suspension is in the center of travel as it should be.

etchamp · July 30, 2015, 10:50 PM

I ordered from Stengle Brothers today...looks like a project for next week!

Rickf1985 · July 31, 2015, 07:03 AM

Good luck, holler if you have any problems. Your UPS guy is not going to be happy with you, that box is a heavy one. W%

GONMAD · July 31, 2015, 11:27 AM

Hey Guys, I often use this method for R&R of most coil springs when the spring height is unknown. Get a roll of Mechanics wire or Bailing wire & wrap the coils in two places with several turns around the coils at 1/3 spread on the INSIDE closest to the center. Once you have the coil wrapped this way the spring will UNLOAD with the curve needed for re installation. When done just cut the wires apart & it's a done deal. It has worked for dozens of times in the past. Hope this helps someone in the future. C YA! GONMAD

Rickf1985 · July 31, 2015, 12:55 PM

I would not try that with these springs, WAY to strong! You would not be able to get enough wire to make it safe. These springs are double the length unloaded as they are installed. If that wire broke when you were taking it out it could maim you at the least or kill you at worst. Just too much stored energy. It was not the curve that was the problem, it was holding a 40 lb. spring in place with one hand while feeling with the other to make sure it was located correctly. Once the top is located on the seat it is pretty easy from there, just jack up the lower control arm and when it has a little tension on it pop the bottom of the spring over into the pocket and finish jacking. The scary part is that it will be lifting off of the jack stand about the same time the ball joint is going in.

These are not pick up truck springs for sure.

GONMAD · August 03, 2015, 10:26 AM

I've done that a hundred times & to large rigs as well as pickup trucks. When you work alone it helps. I also turn several windings on both sides to assure no failure & ease of installations. Also the locater pockets are in the lower control arm & that is crucial as to where the spring locates properly, the top has a register for it to sit & stay. Still all in all this is not an activity for the inexperienced & should be treated with a lot of respect of stored energy in the springs. Be sure to keep those fingers & tools clear of moving parts it should be OK.

Rickf1985 · August 03, 2015, 04:09 PM

We had one in my shop where the mechanic was doing it by the book with a two piece spring compressor. F350 front spring. Just as he was taking it out of the truck one of the compressors broke, the spring ricocheted off of the frame and punched a nice hole on the inside of the block wall and then went through my office wall making a hell of a dent in the back of a filing cabinet. Luckily the mechanic was a church going man and all he got was a broken wrist. I take no chances with springs, period. Even with the right tools accidents can happen but at least they are minimized.

Leaf spring can be just as bad, ever see anyone take a center bolt out without clamping the springs first? Ain't pretty.

GONMAD · August 04, 2015, 05:22 AM

Unfortunate that happened rick & I must say the ford style suspension is the most dangerous of them all. These types of exposed spring configurations require a safety strap or cable around the spring while servicing them. I'm relieved that your mechanic didn't get seriously hurt as it could have been far worse than a broke wrist. Those springs are extra tall & EXPOSED. Safety first & well maintained equipment are a must when dealing with something like this that can cause bodily harm if not treated with enormous respect. On another topic I have provided a pic in my gallery of the 5 pin HEI module if you would like to see it. Have a good day to all. GONMAD

etchamp · August 12, 2015, 11:46 PM

Got the springs in....totally different RV to drive. It sits higher now, the bump stops are not hitting and it does not lay over going into a curve.

Thanks for all the info!

Froggy1936 · August 24, 2015, 01:29 PM

Tip: Jack up only 1 side at a time ( you need the extra weight and leverage ) Also before installing the new spring Note where spring aligns with lower control arm (rotation position) Mark new spring with masking tape for alignment (wrap around 1 coil a few in from the bottom ) This will allow proper positioning without danger of putting fingers in dangerous places Checking space around spring between opening will assure top is centered You can hammer on sides of spring as tension is picked up to center also ! Frank

etchamp · August 26, 2015, 02:30 PM

Got the bus home from the alignment shop and it drove alot better as it was toed in horribly. Looked at the alignment sheet and they did not adjust camber or caster settings...I called and asked and the technician informed service manager that they are non adjustable.

I will look when I get home but I do find it hard to believe.

Rickf1985 · August 26, 2015, 03:41 PM

Toe is adjustable on any motor vehicle and on a P-30 chassis so is caster and camber. Shims behind the upper control arm. It is possible they did not need adjusting?

etchamp · August 26, 2015, 03:56 PM

toe was way off due to the 2.5 inches of lift and they adjusted that. The alignment sheet uses red and green blocks to identify good or bad and the camber is out of adjustment when it went in and never touched as the red blocks indicate trouble.

Rickf1985 · August 26, 2015, 08:29 PM

Before you unload on the shop remember this, the alignment specs for a motorhome are different from a standard P30 chassis. It is possible that the computer aligner only shows the specs for the standard chassis and they set it for the motorhome specs. If I remember correctly the caster should be at 5-51/2 degrees and the camber should be real close to zero on the plus side. What is it showing on the sheet?