How Do I find roof rafters?

[lngfish]

Hello,

MY RV is a 1987 Holiday Rambler Alumilite 30 footer. It has a metal roof and aluminum sub-framing on sides and aluminum roof. I have ordered a ceiling fan that will require me to cut I think a 14" x 14" hole in the ceiling. I've measured the Rivet to Rivet distance on the side framing and it is 16" rivet to rivet.

My question is do you think the roof framing is a continuation of the side framing so that the roof framing is at the same location as the side framing just at a 90 degree angle from it?

I'd like to put this fan between the framing on the roof and not cut one.

Any tips on cutting this hole or a lil procedure would be appreciated.

Never cut a hole in roof before.

BTW it will be on centerline if that matters , not sure.

Thanks

Steve

[ClydesdaleKevin]

If you have a 30 foot Holiday Rambler Alumilite, wouldn't you already have at least one roof vent already up there?  Our 35 foot HR Imperial has one in the bathroom, plus one in the kitchen area...and 2 more 14x14 holes up there for both air conditioners.  Replacing an existing fan/vent on the roof just requires drilling out rivets and chipping away at this hard plastic like epoxy sealant they used...we replaced both on ours.  I sure wouldn't want to cut a new hole in the roof though.  All kinds of wiring running through those rafters.  Yikes!

Kev

[lngfish]

Hi Kev and Thanks,

Yes I have (2) roof airs but only one vent in show/tub. I wanted to add another vent in Kitchen as it appears you have in yours, nice. OR put a better one in Tub/Shower.


I saw those Huge rivet heads on the one in the back corner ( ON ROOF) for the shower/tub and didn't want to mess with them so just removed the crack caulk over them, wired brushed the square steel frame, resealed with this stuff from NAPA called Seam Sealer ($14 a tube-Standard Gun).

I was going to put a bigger fan in this hole and could still do this if you think cutting a new hole is not such a good idea.

I'm on the fence to be honest.

It would mean drilling out about 8 huge rivets per side like you did.

After you drilled out the rivets did you see stuff underneath that needed some TLC? This would temp me to put it there and take care of maintenance there if you get my drift. I ordered some Butly Tape. I assume I'd use that stuff, and I also have some Eternabond tape I have been using on other roof things.

I got of one of these fans:

http://www.amazon.com/Maxxair-0007000K-MaxxFan-Deluxe-Remote/dp/B003ZOF09Y/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1441621477&sr=8-1-fkmr0&keywords=700K+maxxfan

But a return so paid less but new. ($205 with free shipping actually)

I'm trying to add some ventilation on the inside to get out humid stale air fast.

The little fan in shower is TINY , but could be UPGRADED.

NOTE:Our ceilings panels are hard to look up into. One of my trim pieces is a loose where the ceiling panels join so ceiling droops like 1/2". These trims just push UP. I'm sure you see this.

Anyway thanks for the input Kev!

Get back to me with what you found under rivets please. Did it need some TLC?

Steve

[lngfish]

Kev,

Can you please measure the distance from the centerline of one of the ceiling trim pieces, these are the side to side things that push up and go in between a "Steel Pincher",  to centerline of your fan in your kitchen area?

You fan it either at trim piece or a distance from it I'm thinking. I'd like to know how yours is mounted please and thank you.

From a brochure I have, our ceilings have 1-1/2" I-beams in them on what looks like 16"centers.

So with this a 14" hole would take up most of the distance between roof rafters, I-beams. All but 1".

My one AC is landed on the exact side of one of these I beams by the looks of it.

To me, if I carefully cut with a dremel from inside 1st a inspection hole and find this I-beam and look for wires slowly I should be OK. The monitor panel wires are well clear as they go through a cabinet. The wire for  light to light could be close by but appears to go at good angle by feel missing where I want to put fan.

The AC wire for AC unit goes Outboard not aft but not positive on this one. Radio antenna has to be clear as it is forward of location.

Too bad cabinet have to come down to drop ceiling panels 1st .

Steve

[ClydesdaleKevin]

Under the rivets...which are easy to drill out by the way, since they are aluminum...there was a very hard epoxy resin...which I just used butyl tape right over, since it was at least smooth and flat after removing the old vent.  The new vent I just used stainless screws to hold down, then eternabond tape, then Kool Seal when I did the roof.  No leaks, and its been years.  I have a Fantastic vent and fan in the kitchen, and went with a Hong fan and vent in the bathroom.  My holes, including the box aluminum framing them, are exactly 14x 14.  The fan and vent in the kitchen is in the exact center of the vinyl padded ceiling section, so maybe you'll get lucky and there might already be a boxed in 14 x 14 framed off section there already, if it was optional on your rig.  One would think that that is the way they would build them in an assembly line type situation.  There are pictures galore of the work we've done on our rig, including placement of that vent, on my photobucket.  Just go to photobucket and look up my user name, Clydesdalekevin.  If you choose to pioneer new ground and cut your own vent, I would suggest making your own frame once you cut the hole, and try to tie it into the surrounding rafters using box aluminum tubing, aluminum bar stock cut and bent to the right size, and aluminum rivets if at all possible.  Hope that helps!

Kev

[lngfish]

Hi Kev,

Great.

That helps allot.

I like you thought of thinking this might be an option thing and mine might be framed out all ready.

I was half way thinking that myself last night.

There is this little tell tale tag the happens to be in the center of this panel in my kitchen that says on it "Vent Wire Here". The tag is circular and is screwed into the ceiling panel dead center it looks. I never knew what his tag was for and still don't. lol

I'm not saying this telltale means anything at all here since I don't know what it is.

It isn't for the antenna since the antenna is else where about 5 feet forward or so, up by the after of the fwd AC.

Does your RV have such a tag?

Back to the mounting of this fan:

Are you saying you think best so support on all 4 sides? Is this how it is done. Oh boy I was thinking front and back would be enough but if HR frames out all 4 I'm thinking I should do the same. Darn it.

My fan is not here yet so I have time to ponder this thing and can put it in the shower meanwhile I'll look over some of your pictures.

I like this RV allot, it seems to be put together well , wish it was longer likes yours but it seems to be just fine for us so far.

steve

[ClydesdaleKevin]

We don't have that tag, since we have the roof vent already...but it does sound like it could be a positive indication that you already have a spot framed for one from the factory.  I have a similar tag on the overhead over the dash that reads ITEC Rear Vision Wire Here, and another in the rear overhead cabinet that reads the same...so the rig is already wired for a rear view camera, but never got one as an option.

Kev

[lngfish]

Great, getting warmer here,

I pushed up to feel supports (fore/aft) the ones I need and I reallyDID feel resistance just out 7 inches from this Whacky Screw and tag that says "Vent Wire Here". Screw is DEAD CENTER of a possible 14 X 14 cut out in kitchen panel.

I wonder if there is something I can use to be positive?

Then I got a steel coat hanger and at an angle with screw out poked and poked.

Sometimes I hit metal, sometimes not. 80% no hits.

I'm thinking there are holes in support so hit or miss huh?

For the heck of it I email HR and calling them now.

This is fun.

Thanks Kev

Steve W%

[lngfish]

BTW,

I don't have the INTEK tags since I have the Camera.

I actually got it working too.

The tube was used when the put the man on the moon.

It was bad.

Nifty huh?

Steve

[lngfish]

Kev,

Maybe my tag was supposed to read VENT HERE?

Steve

[lngfish]

Kev,

I tried to look at Photobucket, but was unable to register.

I'm on terrible dial up so allot I can't do.

I live in the boonies.

What is this Facebook all about anyway, joking.


Steve

[Rickf1985]

Steve, That Seam sealer you got from NAPA is probably supposed to be used to seal the seams of bodywork in cars. That is close tolerance seams. What you should be using up there is self leveling sealant. I hate to say it but going cheap usually bites you in the end. Eternabond tape and then self leveling sealant is even better.

[ClydesdaleKevin]

Short of taking the plunge and deciding where that tag is really IS exactly where you want your new vent, and then cutting into the ceiling material to find out, I can't think of any more advice to give you.  You'll get no help from Holiday Rambler.  The REAL Holiday Rambler went out of business in the early 90s, with the name being bought up by Newmar, and then the atrocious and notorious Monoco company.  They offer NO support, technical or otherwise, for the real Holiday Ramblers.

Kev

[ClydesdaleKevin]

I thought I had better pictures, but I uploaded all the ones I had on photobucket to try to help you out.  This is of the new light we installed, but you can see the vent in relation to it.

[ClydesdaleKevin]

This is the kitchen vent after the install of the solar panels.  Its dead center.

[ClydesdaleKevin]

Another of the light, but you can see the vent and fan.

[ClydesdaleKevin]

This is the Hong fan we installed in the bathroom...great airflow, and good enough for the bathroom.  They are pretty cheap, and will install into almost any preexisting vent without having to replace the whole vent.

[ClydesdaleKevin]

This is a close up of the Fantastic fan in the kitchen.  They are awesome, but extremely hard to clean and keep clean.

[ClydesdaleKevin]

Another of the kitchen vent and fan in relation to the light.  Its dead center of the section of ceiling panel that its installed in.

[ClydesdaleKevin]

This was before the great solar project...and you can see the forward kitchen vent is dead center of the roof.

[ClydesdaleKevin]

Hope these pictures help, as they are the only ones I have of the roof vents and their placement, with and without solar panels.

Kev

[lngfish]

For Sure they Helped allot!,

Yesterday I was messing around with putting on a new Standard Maxxair cover over the bathroom vent fan since it looks like I won't have to put the new fan there once it arrives since all the stars are aligning. The new standard Maxxair covers lets in more light than the old one. It is 25% more translucent, guessing.

Less Opaque?

I actually did get some help from a fellow when I called Holiday Rambler after 12th in line. He said cut a hole for a fire alarm, lol. I had thought of that already but I thanked him.

My problem from the get go is the fact I use to work on ships and when I read the tag VENT WIRE HERE, I thought the word VENT was a verb.

So I was thinking what sort of wire would one stick up this hole?

Funnie? but true.

You see on ships we use to VENT boilers to atmosphere using super heater vent valves. Stuff like that.

Now that the word VENT is a noun I'm pretty sure there is a VENT (fan) wire there.

Nough said on that. LOL.

Yes the area is dead center also. That new light looks pretty nice, I like it.

Thanks allot Kev for pictures!

I think you need to measure the Nautilus again. To me it looks like a 44 footer not a 34 footer compared to my 30 footer. It goes and goes and goes!

Love the solar panels!

Rick Commented on this NAPA Sealer. I got it my mistake when I asked Wife to pick up some Black Silicone sealer for a RV project or another project I forget exactly.

Since it was made by Martin Senour Paints and on it it Says "PRO" I figured it ended at the right place.

Kidding.

Anyway, I don't know what Tight Tolerance means for a sealer but I would assume for body seams. This is confirmed since the fellow at NAPA told me he used to work at a FORD dealership and FORD used this stuff on a recall when they found it the best on the market for some body recall I assume for a truck recall.

It is not cheap at $14 a tube. I like it.

It is flexible. It adheres to bare and primed metal. It is good for interior and Exterior. It can be sanded and tooled . It set up relatively fast if thin. 30 minutes. I let it set up 24 hours.

Good for metals, glass, aluminum, plastic (OFF TUBE)

I used it successfully to fill in and hold down the constant problem with the roof centerline overlap on this RV.

Kev knows what I mean here.

Then over it I used Eternabond tape.

It works pretty good for electrical too. I used it on my Camera Stuffing box for wire.

I just squirt some on, and use a putty knife to push it down where I want it to lay. It does NOT self level but it sure sticks good. It is a lil thicker than RTV.

I really don't know HOW good it has to be with Eternabond on top I could of used chewing gum but it really is good stuff.

Get you some

NAPA
4323-Pro Adhesives/Sealants
Universal Black Firm Seam Sealer

My fan isn't here yet.

[lngfish]

Rick,

I agree with you that Self leveling caulk w/ Butyl Tape and Etenabond ON TOP best on virgin installs like this fan will be.

I ordered 3 tubes of the self leveling stuff (caulk) and some rolls of Butyl tape (ROLLS) and I have some Enternabone tape on hand already.

This NAPA stuff is just for Go-overs I plan on doing the fan correctly so it can be undone if need be.

Thanks for reminder.

I'm getting up to speed and have learned allot here.

Steve

[lngfish]

Kev,

My fan in my bathroom is just in the bathtub/shower not out in the room like yours is.

The motor is super tiny but spins this tiny fan blade very fast, don't ask me how I found out.

The fan only takes up about 25% of the area of the screen or even less but it moves air well.

The only problem I had with this fan is the vent cover and the switch.

The previous owner, well a long time ago previous owner, pumped in hords of RTV around it to seal it when it was not supposed to be sealed. This I just found out.

This previous owner must of had a back pack for RTV. I've grown to hate the stuff.

Anyway, after replacing the faulty switch from PB to Toggle, and Oiling up the motor I'm good to go with this fan now. If it works I leave it alone.

This new Standard Maxxfan cover Hoovers over the opening on (4) L-Brackets and there are no screws into roof. I put screws in roof where old screws were and covered screw heards with 4323 and some Eternabond tape so this should not leak.

[ClydesdaleKevin]

The fan and vent on the bathroom is indeed in the shower stall itself, not out in the bathroom.  We replaced it because the cover was damaged, the screen was torn, and the little fan blades were all broken off.

Kev