My first class A - 81 Holiday Rambler - lite restoration

[fasteddie313]

I guess I better start a thread like this to follow the progress of the Holiday Rambler I just got and I'll use this first post to fill in some background information related to how I came to acquire it..


First we (me and my GF) got interested in buying an RV then after doing some research I decided to buy one based on it's construction mostly and happened to have come across a great machine at a great price that fit my criteria so there she be..


I took these pics when looking at it..
https://flic.kr/s/aHskk5EKLb
..and this is from the ad..

..blowing a tire on the way home..

..and the first pic after getting it home.





Pretty much where I'm at with it right now is who knows what works and what doesn't, but we spent the whole day today cleaning and cleaning the whole interior of it, shop vac'd everything, cleaned fridge, toilet, bathtub, counters, everything, armour all'd the dash and all matching vinyl, hardcore cleaning.. I also cleaned out all of the basement storage boxes and the genny area and all of them with the vac and scrubbing etc.. I also oiled the slides on the basement storage compartments and they slide with one finger now.


Engine/trans/driveline - Runs good but something is holding up the primary butterfly from closing all the way to the throttle stop so it idles high unless I push on the linkage to close it down by hand. Trans is good and drivline, needs mor-ryde rubbers..


Electrical - Most of the lights are working and outlets, my 2 outlets and a switch above the couch dont do anything, and also the flourescent above the kitchen sink does't work tested with known good bulbs, couple of the standard 12v lights don't work but I didn't go switching bulbs.
The rear AC unit seems to work and blows cold, the front sounds like the fan is seized up and won't spin, have not investigated further.
Generator runs pretty good, a cough now and then but improving, likely suspect gasoline, it powers the AC good and stuff.
The fridge doesn't seem to make any noise or anything on 110 or 12v but I don't know what it's supposed to do, and I didn't leave it "on" long enough for it to do anhting. The outlet in the exterior fridge panel has power where it plugs in.
The kitchen sink is disconnected and the tank is totally empty so no water testing yet, pump does run when I switch it on though.
The hydraulic jacks don't seem to do anything, I turned the switch "on" and one of the green lights cam on momentarily, went out, and had done nothing since..
I have not messes with anything LP yet and I want to get the tank inspected first. I think I can faintly smell it on the fill up hole so that needs professional/expert intervention.




There is really too much to list much less think of all at once. I guess I'll post sub-projects as I decide to tackle them. Insane amount of things to tinker with..

[circleD]

The switch above the couch is for the INverter under the couch. The light over the sink is 12V. Look at some of my post because I did an electrical clean up. Mainly the house battery compartment needed cleaning. I've done some detailed post here. You have a 35' like Clydesdale Kevin but the colors of mine and others on here. Most of your questions are in Handy Dan, Clydesdale Kevin, and myself posts if you want some long reading.

[HandyDan]

Be sure the motorhome is level before you mess with the refrigerator.  Otherwise, you will burn out the cooling coils.  The refrigerator has no moving parts so you will not hear it run.  Check to make sure the light on the inside comes on when you open the door.  That will indicate you are getting power to the circuit board.  After you turn it on, wait about ten minutes and carefully feel the chimney so see if it is warm.  Not warm, you have problems.  Warm and no cooling going on, bigger problems.  However, if the fridge is shot, there is hope to resurrect it for a lot less than a new one.

[fasteddie313]

OK lets talk about this fridge first..


The tube coil thing under the shelf in the freezer is rusted, like bad.. Is there danger of rust through on this bent tube deal? If it were to rust through is the stuff in there toxic and/or explosive/dangerous in any manner? I'll get pics of it tomorrow..


I do not recall lights coming on when the doors were opened, in fact the dors are wide pen right now and no lights are on.
I did turn the fridge on to 110 for about 5 min total and on 12v for a few minutes and I did notice condensation droplets on that rusty tube in the freezer so that looks promising.. You know, maybe its like calcification and rust on it and not just rust..


Also on the fridge where the knobs/switches are there is a thing that says "gas thermometer" or something like that and it just looks like a broken off copper tube sticking just out of the hole.. What's up with that thing?

[ClydesdaleKevin]

As far as the florescent light go, those are more than likely Thin-Lite brand...which are notorious for bad ballasts after 30 years or so...lol!  If its getting 12 volts at the plug coming to the light, and still not lighting up, the ballast is bad.  You'll either have to replace the whole fixture, which is around a hundred bucks, replace the ballast, which is around 65 bucks, or convert the fixture to LED bulbs, which will run about 75 bucks (T18 by Starlight Revolution, around 35 bucks each, times 2...and they work amazingly well.  They are wired in by bypassing the ballast, light right up, put out around 800 lumens, and will last your whole lifetime and never need replacement).

Kev

[fasteddie313]

UGH, Found a new problem today...

Coach battery died over the night when I thought it would have been charging all night.. The rig was plugged into 110 all night.. The batt will power all 12v fine (when charged), plugged into 110 all the 12v works battery or not, but the converter is not charging the batt when its plugged in..

There are 2 solinoids in the batt compartment, the top one one side is the chassis battery and the other is the coach battery positives, I think. The other I don't know.. With the battery out of the coach I can find no power from the inverter to any of the wires in the coach compartment, or to either solenoid. Where is the inverter power supposed to come into the battery at? What color?

I went through my books and don't have one on the inverter wiring and coach battery wiring..

[fasteddie313]

I do get battery power back to the converter from the coach battery through the black wires, but it is dim battery only power.. Shouldn't the converter recognise battery power from that and then help that circuit to charge the coach batteries?

[fasteddie313]

have some pics..






Here is a painted one..

Blue is power from coach batts
Red is power from the chassis batt, one of the right side leads goes to the starter and joins the chassis batt, is this correct? Nothing makes this solenoid activate.
Green solenoid clicks with ignition key on, green wire goes under the grill to the batteries place and its end is taped up.. I find no dual/mom switch..


And the converter..




The converter powers the red/coach power just fine, the black gets +12v from the coach batts with the batt on but the converter doesn't bring up the voltage of this circuit like I think it should, just flat battery voltage with some power draw in it somewhere..


Does all this look right? Especially the solenoids wiring is suspect.. I really wish I could find a diagram of this rambler 12v circuitry but I can't seem to..


Also the switch above the couch doesn't seem to do anything, it is a 3 position switch.


I'm a bit stumped unless that inverter is broken..
[size=78%] [/size]

[circleD]

When I had my INvertor I couldn't tell any difference with the switch either. I just leave it on shore power. The rectangle is a battery isolator that charges your chassis battery and house battery without them touching each other. That one solenoid should be an AUX start button on the dash so you can jump yourself off when the chassis battery is dead from the house battery. While you're in there take a lot of pics and then take apart the connections. Then scrub them clean for a better contact. There should be a wiring diagram on this site. Good luck getting one with the entire camper on it since there are several companies that made it. Use a volt meter with long leads to help narrow it down. It takes time and it seems you don't have a bad rust issue like I had to deal with so you'll be OK. Just do one project at a time and don't get side tracked.

[TripleJ]

The top solenoid is your 'jump start' solenoid.  I looked at the pics of your dash and didn't see the push button switch I am looking for.  It was likely replaced with one of the toggle switches I see on your dash.  Might be the toggle switch to the top and left of your speedometer?

It is the button/switch, where if your CHASSIS battery is low and wont start the engine, closes the top solenoid, joining the COACH battery B+ with the CHASSIS battery B+, which should give you plenty of power to start the engine.

I looked thru my photobucket and cant find a good pic of mine.  I can get one later I think


The bottom solenoid Im not sure.  I think you say that the large cable - 'green' - goes to a location behind the vehicle grill where it is taped off?  Im wondering if there was an option for some kind of accessory behind the grill, a large inverter maybe?  I found a length of romex running from behind my grill, taped off, no idea what it was for.  Anyhow, as long as the cable is safe, set it aside.  Deal with it later.


Theres more questions in your post I think...

[TripleJ]

Another thought, the blue wire that actuates the bottom solenoid - 'green' - looks like an aftermarket or 'repair'.  The blue crimp shielding at the terminal doesn't look original.  Actually the brown wire laying on the ground looks like it might be the original... cant help with where its suppose to be connected

[HandyDan]

Okay, Let's compare your instrument panel to mine although mine is a couple of years newer.  This is the way it was when I bought it.  I have changed a few things since then, like installed a tach, removed the propane switch, and removed the aux heater switch. 

Across the top:
MOM switch (activates that solenoid to switch between batteries)
Left fan switch
Jacks Down light
Antenna Up light
Right fan switch
Air Horn button (never did work)
The Aux Heat switch is to turn on the heat back under the passenger side bed.  (Mine burst one day and sprayed antifreeze all over the bedroom.  I removed it)
Vacuum gauge
Dual Fuel (Propane) Management switches
On the the right is the Heated Mirror switch
The switches on the left side are self explanatory.




This is how it looks now, except I have put better labels on everything.
Under the radio is the rear camera (Intek) rocker switch and next to it is the am/fm radio rocker switch.
Under that is the rooftop search light switches. 
I reinstalled the aux heat switch except I hooked it up to the electric fuel pump so I could shut it off if necessary. 

[fasteddie313]

for comparison..

I think I may hae fixed my charging issue, I cleaned 3 sets of points in the converter and I get power to the coach battery circuit from it now.. I think what it's doing now is coming in and out because the battery is charged (little boing switch with points that is some sort of current/heat activated cut out)..
What I need to do is run it hard off just the battery untill it runs down some and then plug it back in to see if it will charge it back up..

I'll throw some pics up in a moment..

This little baby has 2 sets of points in it..


And here just above the thing in the first pic there is a sensor like deal riveted to the floor just above it in this pic, some sort of heat spring thing with points that puts +12v to the batt circuit when it is closed, this was a very poor contact and made things much better..


Here is the fridge..
Rusty pipr in the freezer..



Controls..


Looks like both thermostat knobs are off, 1 gone, and I don't see a way to properly index the knob onto the tube/shaft deals so I don't know which way is on/off/number etc.. I haven't dug into it yet, the batt charging was a surprise and took priority..

[HandyDan]

Think very highly about replacing that old converter with a new solid state version.  They aren't too expensive and work a whole lot better, but they don't hum or make noise like the old one.  I have the Progressive Dynamic PD9245C (45 Amp).  I only have one coach battery because I don't boondock at all.  If you need more battery power you might want a 60, 70, or 80 amp.  There are other options and I'm sure Devin or Bryan will chime in on their choices.
http://www.progressivedyn.com/power_converters_9200.html

[HandyDan]

Oh my, that is really an old school refrigerator.  I wish I could tell you whether this is worth saving or not.  You have to self light the pilot light.  Most don't have a pilot light anymore.  Here is a website that might be helpful in troubleshooting.  https://rvrefrigeratorrepair.com/index.htm   There isn't any real complexity to a refrigerator.  I have completely torn mine apart and put it back together again, replaced the circuit board, and rewired the on/off switch after I left the switch on and started the generator.  The surge of electricity melted the ribbon cable from the circuit board to the on/off switch.  There is no replacement for the switch or cable anywhere.

[Rickf1985]

Anything higher than 45 amp and you are probably looking at rewiring the entire charging circuit. 45 amp is plenty for at least two deep cycles. I have a 45 amp Boondocker and have never had any trouble.

[fasteddie313]

Are these old school converters battery charge power supposed to come in and out all the time every 30 seconds or so or is it not functioning properly?


That little inline switch deal, the current passes through a metal strip that opens after it heats up, it cycles in and out in and out adding some voltage to the battery circuit when it's closed, likely a little less than 50% duty time charging overall.. Is that the way it is supposed to operate?

[Froggy1936]

I believe that the (lil baby) switch in the first picture is an automatic control to switch curcuits when they are sensed Usually used for 110 supply or generator supply And usually made by Iota  But can be used for other power supplys ! Frank

[DaveVA78Chieftain]

That little inline switch deal, the current passes through a metal strip that opens after it heats up, it cycles in and out in and out adding some voltage to the battery circuit when it's closed, likely a little less than 50% duty time charging overall.. Is that the way it is supposed to operate?

Short answer is no.  A thermal breaker opening indicates it is weak or it is opening due to a high current load.
There are 2 Thermal breakers in this unit. 
One is in line with the blue output wire that goes to the DC fuse box (rating dependent on model of converter)
The other one protects the battery charger output (rated at 25 amps)
Which one is tripping?

On a Phillips converter:
Red output wire goes to battery B+ terminal
Blue output wire should go to the DC fuse panel.
White wire is ground and Battery B-

The big relay is used to select DC source between either the battery or the converter output as supply to the DC fuse panel.

Charge output voltage is approx 14.1VDC
Charge output voltage once battery is fully charged is 13.6VDC to 13.8VDC at battery posts.  This is adjustable on this unit.

[fasteddie313]

Short answer is no.  A thermal breaker opening indicates it is weak or it is opening due to a high current load.
I think it's weak, it opens and closes constantly if it takes any load to charge the battery, fully precharged battery it trips almost never but it's like always wanting to open..
There are 2 Thermal breakers in this unit. 
One is in line with the blue output wire that goes to the DC fuse box (rating dependent on model of converter)
The other one protects the battery charger output (rated at 25 amps)
Can I just replace it with a 25 amp automotive fuse? If the fuse blows there is a problem, if it doesn't then the breaker is weak, correct?
Which one is tripping?
The one that makes the battery stop charging when it opens..

On a Phillips converter:
Red output wire goes to battery B+ terminal
Blue output wire should go to the DC fuse panel.
White wire is ground and Battery B-

The big relay is used to select DC source between either the battery or the converter output as supply to the DC fuse panel.

Charge output voltage is approx 14.1VDC
When the batt is charged well and it is not tripping it charges at 14.1v
Charge output voltage once battery is fully charged is 13.6VDC to 13.8VDC at battery posts.  This is adjustable on this unit.
Is this the dial on the smaller secondary circuit board that is responsible for the battery charging (leads to the tripping breaker)?
Likely, I did monkey with it, I'll make sure the batt is fully charged tomorrow and see if this has any affect on the charge voltage..

[DaveVA78Chieftain]

Phillips Power Converter

Schematic wiring diagrams are at the rear of that version of the manual.  The charger adjustment resistor is the 300 ohm one on the right hand side of each drawing version.  I suspect you have the PC-401 (40 amp) model which is the 2nd drawing.

[fasteddie313]

That looks about right.. My converter says "B-W 3200" and I don't recall it saying phillips on it anywhere, I'll look again, but I couldn't find a manual searching for "B-W 3200"..

I suspect that the "thermal breaker" in correct operation should protect against over amperage current through it and also "thermally" from its converter chassis mount if over temperature should occur..

My thermal breaker is breaking in open air due only to the current passing through it, especially if there is any electrical load on the battery while its charging.. At first this thermal breaker was passing no current at all due to its points being badly corroded. I cleaned its points up and it just keeps breaking and breaking..

I put a 25 amp fuse in replacement of the original thermal breaker and it has not blown. I even cranked over the 454 with the MOM while it was charging and it did not blow the fuse so I think it's good to go. It seems to be working fine as far as I can tell now..


In other news I got the hydraulic jacks functioning, I'm not getting any power to the leveling lights board thing but when I put power to it it functions. Also a couple of the microswitches on the levers are crappy not wanting to come back off when the lever is moved away from the "raise" position but it runs and will lift the MH.. I want to change the fluid before I play with it too much..

The jacks themselves have sort of locking mechanisms on them to keep the jacks down and all but one are in bad shape bent up and some even missing parts.
It's been raining a lot so I haven't done much work outside but at least I know the motor and pump function, no leaks at the jacks but one of the main lines that go from the pump to the lever block has a small leak at its threaded fitting/connection.. The jacks are going to be quite a project themselves.. But at least the system functions..


The outlets and that switch above the couch got played with too.. It was wired strange with 1 wire completely dead genny or no genny, maybe just one outlet for an inverter or something IDK.. I rewired it with the dead line off of everything and standard power to the outlets so the outlets work now off of shore power like everything else and the 3 way switch unwired..


I have the tub out of the bathroom, it is all cracked to he**.. Tore up all the old original carpet out from under the tub and the wash machine spot and all the stupid sticky square tiles. The floor under the tub is actually very good to my surprise, I thought I'd have to replace it all but no it's nice. The floor under the wash machine spot though is terrible and is going to get replaced, I just have to figure out how much I want to take out in order for the new board to land on the framing and etc. etc.
I'll pop some pics up of the bathroom floor sometime soon..

I also was able to screw the bathroom ceiling back up around the fan vent flange so it doesn't sag anymore, well much less sag, it is now satisfactory besides the crap wallpaper..

I've been working my tail off on the rig and have made great progress as far as I'm concerned though I still have a list 'as long as satna's' of things to tinker with but it's coming along. I came into this expecting almost nothing to work and am pleasantly surprised by the amount of things that are in good order and work well, thankful..

I am also going to replace a small piece of floor in the front directly behind the 3 windows that are just to the right of the door when looking from the outside, and some paneling on the back side of that wall.

Curious those 3 windows there on the outside have had a panel of exterior aluminum sheeting replaced where they are in the wall, I'll post a pic.. It looks very good and professionally done and I didn't even notice for a long time despite that sheet of exterior aluminum not having any paint on it, bare aluminum.. There is water damage to the paneling and floor directly behind this fresh exterior sheet so I don't know if it was hit and leaked, just leaked and is fixed now, or is still leaking, or if they like changed the windows, or what..

I'm going back at it when I'm done with morning coffee..

[DaveVA78Chieftain]

In other news I got the hydraulic jacks functioning

Top of page, Member Area -> Manuals, Diagrams, & Tech info -> Select Leveling Systems from TOC -> Scroll down and download the AP-2461 HWH manual.  Is that your system?  Was used on many HR rigs

While you can replace parts, most have been superseded by newer components and are very pricey.
mailto:http://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php/topic,7524.0.html

[fasteddie313]

Is that your system? 

It looks very similar if not identical though my manual recommends 5w-30 and that recommends trans fluid.. I can look later to see if it is the same model number but I do have a physical copy of the jacks manual in the binder that came with it.. 


I spend at least 3 hours on the roof today with my angle grinder and wire wheel cleaning up all the seams and things that need to be sealed on the roof. I bought a gallon of elastomeric stuff and the mesh fiber tape that goes with it that you do like taping drywall, 4 tubes of flashing caulk, paint brushes, and a whole bunch of aluminum rivets in different sizes.
Ammo..


I need to go get a couple sheets of OSB and a sheet or 2 of similar paneling.


GF wants us to build just a shower base in there, I guess the plan is to build a raised floor over the piping and have my tile expert friend build me a nice shower base. We will likely relocate the drain to suit and relocate that pipe vent from the tub area to behind the toilet..
The floor is actually very solid there under the tub..

Here under the wash machine spot the floor is hit and will be replaced up to that wall from a bit under the tub area..


Most of the dark on the floor is from there sticky tile glue.. I beat on the floor good and it only broke where the holes are..




I took this paneling/styrofoam board sheet off the inside under those 3 windows off nice in one big piece so I can reuse the styrofoam sheet and use the old panel as a template for my new one..

And the floor along the wall there is going to be replaced all the way from the passenger's seat area to the fridge wall likely 2 feet all the way down..
The aluminum studding is pretty cool eh? it doesnt attatch at the bottom to the wood floor but rather to the steel under framing, it is solid as a rock..




Check out how there is a raw aluminum mismatch sheet in the middle of these windows..



I don't know what happened but that spot seems to have been replaced and well done.. Maybe it was hit or something, what do you think??

[Rickf1985]

Well not having a HR myself this is just a guess but the shape of the panel and the general outline of the body lines would tell me there was originally one large window there. I am guessing someone added the two long side windows and the smaller center. Now we will see how close my guess is when the HR owners chime in. Hm?