1984 Chieftain not cranking

Cliff the RV · September 26, 2015, 03:49 PM

Been browsing the forums, but can't find anything. Didn't want first post to be a call for help, but, HELP.

We have a 1984 chieftain. Full disclosure, installing a new engine battery I initially reversed the cables. They were "backward" from the house batteries - which were a different brand. Now (the cables have been switched back) it's dead. Won't start or crank. Headlights work, but nothing else. I've looked at all the blade-type fuses behind the dash, there was one 30amp fuse that was on a separate little fuse holder and blown, otherwise it was unlabeled. I replaced that, all the others were fine. Still nothing when I turn the key. The battery meter also doesn't read anything.

I will admit to not being extremely motor savvy, so I don't know where the solenoid is to try and bypass for example, and really feel like there has to be something simple blown that needs replacing.

We were supposed to leave a little while ago - so help? Please?

jeno · September 26, 2015, 03:56 PM

I may be wrong but I think there is a fusable link by the starter that may have blown

Cliff the RV · September 26, 2015, 04:00 PM

Where do I look? (As in, where is the starter?

)

Cliff the RV · September 26, 2015, 04:25 PM

Okay, found and checked the connections at the starter. There is no fuse there - could the starter bing bad or blow be causing the issue?

M & J · September 26, 2015, 04:28 PM

We used to have a live chat box called emergency help that would have allowed us to give you real time assistance but both the chatboxes stopped working and the admin hasnt gotten them restored yet. Follow the heavy positive battery cable down under the engine. It will lead you the the starter.

Cliff the RV · September 26, 2015, 04:32 PM

I found the starter - I did not find a fuse or relay. Is there really supposed to be one? near the starter? All I saw were standard looking connections.

Rickf1985 · September 26, 2015, 05:42 PM

A fusible link is a wire that is made to blow like a fuse. It is usually marked with a plastic flag sticking off the side of it and would be part of one of the 8 or 10 gauge wires coming off of the starter. Do any of the dash lights come on when you turn on the key? Like an oil pressure light or brake warning light? If so do they go off when you turn to the start position? If that happens make sure you are in neutral. You could hold it in start and run the shifter through the gears to see if it tries to start in any gear. Keep your foot on the brake in case it does.

Cliff the RV · September 26, 2015, 05:50 PM

No sign of little flags on the wires from the starter. No lights on the dash with the key in any position, and the shifter in any gear.

Is there a master or main fuse or relay somewhere that might be blown?

Rickf1985 · September 26, 2015, 06:08 PM

There are for the coach but not usually for the chassis.Look in some of the overhead cabinets for main battery switches. My Pace arrow has one over the entrance door for both the chassis and also the coach. The thing is, you would not have lights if that switch was off. Have you checked the ground cable where it attaches to the frame? It could be making enough connection for lights but not starter. The no lights at the dash has me wondering unless you just do not have any idiot lights which is entirely possible. Do the gauges move when the key is turned on? Basically any indication of power going through the ignition switch? If not then that is the area you need to concentrate on. Dave may chime in with one of his famous color diagrams of the cab wiring. He is the Dodge guy, I am more of a GM person. If you can't get it figured out by tomorrow morning I will dive into the Dodge wiring diagrams and see if I can come up with something.

Rickf1985 · September 26, 2015, 06:34 PM

I just realized that you do not have a Dodge unit!

I have a newer unit so I do not know if the older ones had the wiring block like the cars and pick-ups but if there is a wiring block on the firewall with all of the wiring going into it and it has a bolt in the center then unscrew the bolt, usually 10mm or 3/8". As you are unscrewing the bolt it will be unplugging it self, you want to check all of the connections for corrosion and then plug it back in. I have had them that showed no problems at all but the electrical issues went away once it was apart and back together. Just that much cleans the connections. If you do not see it do not be alarmed, both of the units I have, a 89 and a 90, neither one has the wiring block. When you checked the fuses did you check them with a test light on both sides of the fuse or did you just look at them? I have had my fair share of fuses that blew in a way that was not visible, they looked fine but tested bad.

Bnova · September 26, 2015, 06:45 PM

Quote from: Cliff the RV on September 26, 2015, 04:00 PM
Where do I look? (As in, where is the starter? )

Do you have multi-meter? Volt/ohmmeter/ammeter

It's time to stop looking, get a meter and start probing for power or lack there of. Looking and guessing can work, but someone with a meter can just go ahead figure it out plain and simple and in short order.

Rickf1985 · September 26, 2015, 06:50 PM

He still needs to have an idea of where to look. He has lights so there is power to the starter. Unless it is wired differently than standard.

Rickf1985 · September 26, 2015, 06:56 PM

If you have the standard fuse box you should have the hazard flasher on the top left and the regular turn signal flasher on the bottom right. On the left of the fuse block halfway up there should be two fuses marked ignition. Check them with a meter or a test light or if you do not have those then replace those fuses and see if you have power at the ignition.

Cliff the RV · September 26, 2015, 08:32 PM

Quote from: Rickf1985 on September 26, 2015, 06:56 PM
If you have the standard fuse box you should have the hazard flasher on the top left and the regular turn signal flasher on the bottom right. On the left of the fuse block halfway up there should be two fuses marked ignition.

I did see those, but there aren't fuses there - only wires plugged into the fuse box. I followed the wires, thinking they led to another fuse somewhere, but they just disappeared into the wire harness.

I didn't check them for those flag things, and will in the morning when there's light. Anything else?

Cliff the RV · September 27, 2015, 08:55 AM

I spend some time reading about fuseable links, then went back out to the RV this morning. There is no sign of one at the starter, starter solenoid (assuming that really is the thing mounted just above the starter), or battery. The fuse box has three spots marked IGN, each takes a plugged wire, not a fuse. One of the plugs is empty - I've never looked at it before but am thinking that's normal since the RV was running fine until the reversed battery thing. One of wires leads to this spring-connection thing that looks like it should have a fuze, but doesn't. The other disappears into the wiring harness.

Touching the end of the wires in the spring-connection thing together had no effect.

Rickf1985 · September 27, 2015, 09:56 AM

Do you have power to those points at the fuse box? Reversing the battery could take out an alternator or maybe the ignition module but it would not affect the starter circuit. You are going to need a test light or meter, test light is quicker, to find out where the power stops.

Cliff the RV · September 27, 2015, 10:38 AM

There is power to the fuse box, but not to any of the ignition circuit fuses. I'm not sure where to put the lead (voltmeter, I don't have a test light) on the alternator.

I spent some time reading up on all the damage reversing the battery can do to a car this morning. Sounded...bad.

jeno · September 27, 2015, 10:54 AM

Rick will correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think you get voltage at the ignition terminals in the fuse box until you turn on the key.

Cliff the RV · September 27, 2015, 11:14 AM

Good point - I tried it again with the key in the 'run' position, no change.

jeno · September 27, 2015, 11:29 AM

I ran out to mine and checked and I have voltage there with the key on

Bnova · September 27, 2015, 11:48 AM

I would start by turning on the ignition switch to the start position and then checking to see if the ignition switch is applying voltage to the starter relay the starter relay then in turn should provide voltage to the starter solenoid.the starter solenoid would in turn engage the starter.

somewhere along the way you will find a disconnect causing your problem, whether it's a broken wire, they burned fuse, maybe I failed relay.

Cliff the RV · September 27, 2015, 12:03 PM

Working through all the wiring (does there need to be so many wires?? Jeez) and found a fusable link on the top of the engine. Not sure what it's for, but when I fixed it everything works.

Thanks for the help! I learned more stuff, so next time (hopefully) I can ask better questions.

Okay, probably not.

Rickf1985 · September 27, 2015, 12:33 PM

The questions were fine, don't worry about it. Glad everything works. Is it charging at around 14.5 volts? I specialized in auto electric for many, many years as a master mechanic so I know how confusing and frustrating wiring can get. You just need to try to narrow the problem down to one area of operation so you can concentrate there and not search the entire vehicle. And for future reference, most electrical problems end up being bad grounds so when something stops working check fuses first, obvious broken wires second and then all the grounds. Don't just look at them, take them off, clean the connector and ground surface and reinstall it. Depending on where it is I will paint it or put dielectric grease over it.

DaveVA78Chieftain · September 27, 2015, 02:07 PM

A little late to the rodeo but for reference:

The red lines are the B+ battery wires to the ignition switch.
A. First fusible link is on solenoid mounted on starter
B. The junction block with the 2nd fusible link is normally located on the firewall accessed from the front hood.

The orange lines are the start circuit from the ignition switch to the magnetic relay.
Blue lines are from B+; to the magnetic relay; to the solenoid mounted on starter.
Green lines are power to the ignition circuit.
(click on picture to see full size)

Location of the Magnetic relay (by alternator)

Original 1984 P30 Drawings (without markup)

The information above is how GM supplied the chassis.
The RV mfg modifies the battery B+ cable by inserting a aux battery select solenoid in the battery compartment that allows the house battery to be utilized to start the engine if the engine battery is discharged.

lngfish · September 30, 2015, 05:39 AM

Dave, Others,

That is terrific, as usual.

Since I'm not that good finding stuff here and my internet is slow on dial up could I trouble you or others for something basic, like this, a LINK (Best) perhaps, that I could print and take with me for my 1987 Chevy, Holiday Rambler , Alumilite.

So I have a basic understanding of what is under the Dog House, these Fusible Links.

Something I can use in a NO CRANK situation, like this fellow had.

I have and do OK with a test light and a VOM I just have trouble finding a suitable drawing is all.

Thank you,

Steve