"Double Length" Oil Filter for the Chevy 454 V8

HamRad Mobile · October 02, 2015, 07:43 PM

Good morning, all;

One of the recommendations received when it was mentioned that I would be getting a new engine for the 1987 Winnebago Elandan WCP31RT with the Chevy 454 cid V8 gasoline engine was to use a larger oil filter than the standard AC-Delco PF-25.

It was reported that the NAPA people have one, and that is their NAPA 1794 extra length oil filter. Another one is the Fram PHF-373 and the Wix 51794.

There are a few others, but that should provide enough to help the parts guy find one of these "two quart" oil filters for you from what he has in stock.

The only other thing I need to do now is to get another heat shield to put over the lower part of this extended length oil filter. Or maybe I will find or make up an extra length heat shield to go over the "two quart" oil filter.

One of the justifications that I can offer for why I am doing this is to increase the capacity of the oiling system by about another quart, and get it up to about eight (8) quarts. Right now mine is at just about seven (7) quarts with what is in the lines and the external engine oil cooler. I think that there is merit in having more oil to help spread the heat load from the engine.

Enjoy;

Ralph
Latte Land, Washington
and "Fawn Bluff II," the 1987 Winnebago Elandan WCP31RT land
yacht

Lefty · October 02, 2015, 08:36 PM

The 1 qt filter and 2 qt filter are interchangeable provided you have the necessary ground clearance or there are no suspension/frame components to be in the way. An RV should befine as far as ground clearance. You will get a small benefit of heat stability.. but not enough to notice (just on paper it takes longer for 8 qts to heat up 1 degree than 7qts). In the real world, if your cooling system is insufficient to keep your oil from overheating, adding 1 qt of capacity is not going to be of much help.
Considering that it will add about $4.00 for an additional qt of oil and the extra cost of the bigger filter at each oil change, my advise is to instead invest that money into a quality external oil cooler and bypass kit. This will move the filter to a location that you can access easier for changes, get the filter away from the exhaust which will greatly help it stay cooler, and add much more oil cooling ability to the rig. Just a drop in oil temp of 20 degrees can make a huge difference in how long the oil lasts and how well it lubricates and protects. Money well spent.

kentw · October 03, 2015, 01:04 AM

Please don't subject your engine to a fram filter. Use a wix, napa, baldwin, or anything else. The additional oil capacity and filter length of the 2 quart filter will be wasted with poor filteration or a malfuncturing check valve.

kattkisson · October 03, 2015, 04:39 AM

when I last researched this subject with a NAPA Filter Spec BOOK I found that a 1794 filter does not have an anti-drain back valve. The 1060(AC PF-25) does.I have not figured out where the same table is on NapaFilters.com but the info holds. With the long periods of inactivity that a RV typically goes though to me stick to the 1060 or equivalent.

Rickf1985 · October 03, 2015, 07:53 AM

Anti drainback on a Chevy V8 is moot because the filter is upright. The oil cannot drain out. The NAPA filters used to be made by Wix which are top of the line, I don't know anymore, I buy Wix from another supplier.

kattkisson · October 03, 2015, 08:10 AM

Hey Rick-
Educate me. Since the filter is below the oil galleries doesn't the valve function to hold some oil up in the system? maybe that was not the intent just would like to know for reference in future Thanks

Rickf1985 · October 03, 2015, 08:34 AM

The anti-drainback valve is to keep the oil in the filter from running back to the pan on engines like most other brands where the filter is on it's side. On the Chevy the filter is full of oil and it has nowhere to go once the engine is shut off. On the other brands where the filter can empty out the first thing that has to happen on start up is that the oil filter has to fill before oil moves into the oil galleys. Even if the oil galleys did empty out they are fairly small passages and fill just about instantly as long as the filter has oil in it.

To give you a good example, the Pace Arrow I just got sat for 7 years, 5 minimum without running. I hooked up jumper cables to it and cranked it while watching the oil pressure and even though it did not start it had oil pressure within ten seconds just cranking the starter. This is after sitting not started for five years. And with 90,000 miles on it.

Lefty · October 03, 2015, 10:10 AM

Rick is correct. An anti drainback valve is for side mounted filters.. have no effect on upright filters. On a vertical filter, the oil system fills the filter to the top, and when the engine shuts off, there is nowhere for that oil to go but remain inside the filter. On a side mounted filter, without the valve the filter would drain back into the pan.

If you are worried about "dry starts" after prolonged periods of sitting, use a quart of Lucas Oil Stabilizer at each oil change. I have used it for years, it's good stuff.

HamRad Mobile · October 03, 2015, 01:13 PM

Good morning, Lefty, Rick, Kent, et al;

When this was first posted, the intent was just to provide information on the larger filter available, and the equivalent type numbers for some of the brands to aid in finding one for the Chevy 454. The response and discussion is impressive.

Lefty, I especially want to thank you for your participation. And I should point out that most of your suggestions have already been applied to my vehicle. One indicator that things were done is the reference to the heat shield for the oil filter. I chose not to use a remote oil filter mount to avoid the additional external engine oil pressure lines and their vulnerability. In the text of the original message, there is a reference to the external engine oil cooler, but I did not mention the addition of the fan to improve its efficiency. Also, there is an external ATF cooler so that heat no longer goes into the cool side of the engine cooling radiator. Something else not mentioned is the addition of sheet metal paneling in the area forward of the radiator to keep the air flowing back and through the radiator, so that it does not dump out toward the ground between the frame cross members. I am doing what I can to keep the engine and transmission temperatures down.

The effectiveness of this probably can be shown by the point that the highest engine coolant temperature that I saw while driving back from Eastern Washington was 200 degrees F. while climbing up to Snoqualmie Pass. Previously, temperatures up to around 230 degrees F. often had been seen, but that was also with the wheat chaff, straw, seeds, small leaves, and other things on the front of the radiator core, and which could not be seen because of the air conditioner condenser right in front of the radiator core. That poor thing could not breathe.

The point of the extended length oil filter itself. If the additional 15 % oil capacity helps to reduce the oil temperature, and I think we actually agree that it does, then that simple contribution to that goal is greatly appreciated.

Enjoy;

Ralph
Latte Land, Washington

Froggy1936 · October 03, 2015, 01:58 PM

I have a switch that controls the fuel pump, I always turn it off when shutting the engine down for more than a few min. . I always crank the engine when starting till I have oil pressure showing on the gauge then turn on the fuel pump allowing the engine to start. Usually takes about 8 to 10 seconds I have found upon tearing down hi mile engines that the most wear on any bearings is the cam bearings . This is due to starting without oil pressure They are near the end of the pressure system. Any viscosity improver Lucas/ STP etc will definatly help keep these parts wet when shut down . Frank

Lefty · October 03, 2015, 06:40 PM

"Also, there is an external ATF cooler so that heat no longer goes into the cool side of the engine cooling radiator."

I would not run a transmission cooler like that. The proper way is to have the hot transmission oil enter the radiator's built in cooler, be cooled by the liquid in the radiator, and then exit the radiator. Then go into the secondary external cooler, be cooled by the air, and return to the transmission. There is a big difference in heat transfer efficiency between liquid and air. Liquid can absorb the heat much faster than air can, and ignoring the built in cooler in the radiator is like throwing away two to three air coolers. You are actually reducing the vehicle's transmission oil cooling ability by at least 1/2 of stock... maybe even more.
If the transmission cooler inside the radiator is ruptured, then I can understand having to use what you got.. because replacing it is only able to be done if the tanks on the radiator are removed. That may not be an option on older radiators, because they might be too rotten to re-solder back on afterwards. But, if the cooler is good, I would certainly use it. I believe you will find that your transmission oil temps will remain more stable under heavy, long pulls.. which is when the air cooler begins to not be able to keep up with the heat gain.

Rickf1985 · October 03, 2015, 07:03 PM

Another thing to consider even though it really does not pertain to most RV drivers. The transmission oil goes through the radiator for a faster warm up of the transmission in cold weather. Transmissions are hydraulically controlled and cold oil can raise pressure too high in very cold weather if pushing it hard. You can also overcool a transmission traveling in cold weather.

TripleJ · October 05, 2015, 06:12 PM

As rick says, you can overcool transmission fluid. It is best for fluid to enter the EXTERNAL cooler first, then the radiator INTERNAL cooler last.

HamRad Mobile · October 05, 2015, 06:33 PM

Guys, we have strayed far away from the title of the topic for this thread.

I propose that we end this thread at this point, leaving it as a discussion about the oil filters, and move on to another thread about cooling the automatic transmission fluid or ATF, and the various ways to accomplish that goal to the optimum temperature, and at the same time, improve the cooling of the Chevy 454 cid V8 gasoline engine, a device also known for being a warm running thing.

Enjoy, and see you over on the new topic thread;

Ralph
Latte Land, Washington

Oz · October 05, 2015, 08:16 PM

Good idea, and in fact, there are some great topics already posted on the cooling issue as well! The same, excellent info like you're seeing here!

We don't want all this good info getting buried and unable to be found in the future.

terlin97 · May 18, 2016, 05:02 PM

Hi, I am a "newby" to the RV world. Just want to say thank you to all of you for the diffrent info. A MAJOR thank you to HAM RAD MOBILE, for the oil filter #'s. Found the WIX filter at our local O'Riley auto parts store. It is definitely longer than what was put on there.
Thanks Again,
Linda