1988 Superchief Engine Swap

ClydesdaleKevin · October 22, 2015, 08:25 PM

If you can weld, I think it would be easier to cut the front crossmember and anything else out of the way in the front, pull it from the front, reinstall it, and then weld back the crossmembers and whatnot.

Kev

TerryH · October 23, 2015, 12:00 AM

If you were to consider cutting the front cross member and anything else in the way and then welding all back up you could end up with a totalled unit.
Riveted parts are riveted for a specific purpose - to allow them to move, flex and absorb movement and flex. A rigid weld would break under stress.
During the original frame manufacture it cost more to rivet a connection than to weld it. There was a reason for riveting.
Some hot rod builders will modify cross members to accept different drive trains and then weld them back in. Generally they will also "box in" the frame to eliminate normal flex. They do this at the cost of a rougher ride and regular inspection and repair due to the cross member welds.
Something to consider as you decide how to go about your engine swap.

beaverman · October 23, 2015, 01:49 AM

Quote from: TerryH on October 23, 2015, 12:00 AM
If you were to consider cutting the front cross member and anything else in the way and then welding all back up you could end up with a totalled unit.
Riveted parts are riveted for a specific purpose - to allow them to move, flex and absorb movement and flex. A rigid weld would break under stress.
During the original frame manufacture it cost more to rivet a connection than to weld it. There was a reason for riveting.
Some hot rod builders will modify cross members to accept different drive trains and then weld them back in. Generally they will also "box in" the frame to eliminate normal flex. They do this at the cost of a rougher ride and regular inspection and repair due to the cross member welds.
Something to consider as you decide how to go about your engine swap.

Terry , been there done that, have a rat road at the moment, would never consider a cut out on a beast this big, out the driver door it's going to go!

TerryH · October 23, 2015, 01:55 AM

And, of course, PICS PLEASE!!!!!!!

M & J · October 23, 2015, 06:43 AM

Ya. Pics or it dint happen.

Rickf1985 · October 23, 2015, 06:56 AM

You would have to look at your individual setup. If you have enough room to move the engine back or forward as needed while through the door then yes you could do it. You will need someone under the rig with a pry bar to manhandle the lift sideways to get your back and forth on the engine while in the engine bay. But if you could do that it would mean not having to take out a lot of the interior and put down heavy plywood and generally trash the interior. You would definitely need a smooth concrete floor to be doing this on.

EldoradoBill · October 23, 2015, 05:43 PM

I just crawled out from under my 91. If it's the same setup as your 88 (I would assume it is) the whole front suspension is held to the frame with six bolts. Remove the suspension assembly (as well as the other sundry items that are in the way) and drop the motor out the bottom, same as you would in a G-series van.

Bill

beaverman · October 23, 2015, 05:43 PM

Quote from: M & J on October 23, 2015, 06:43 AM
Ya. Pics or it dint happen.

Project won't start till after the holidays, will post pics as it prgresses

beaverman · October 23, 2015, 05:45 PM

Quote from: EldoradoBill on October 23, 2015, 05:43 PM
I just crawled out from under my 91. If it's the same setup as your 88 (I would assume it is) the whole front suspension is held to the frame with six bolts. Remove the suspension assembly (as well as the other sundry items that are in the way) and drop the motor out the bottom, same as you would in a G-series van.

Bill

Thanks but I'll take of the drivers door, steering column and seat and out she comes that way, I'm NOT messing with the frame or any other cutting of front end or core supports, plenty of room to pull a short block come out the door

Rickf1985 · October 23, 2015, 06:54 PM

Quote from: EldoradoBill on October 23, 2015, 05:43 PM
I just crawled out from under my 91. If it's the same setup as your 88 (I would assume it is) the whole front suspension is held to the frame with six bolts. Remove the suspension assembly (as well as the other sundry items that are in the way) and drop the motor out the bottom, same as you would in a G-series van.

Bill

Do you realize how high in the air you would have to have the RV to get that motor out form under there? Not to mention the special adapters needed to handle a motor from below. You would have to remove a LOT more stuff to do it that way, the suspension should not make a difference since it is outboard of the frame but all of the engine mounting hardware and exhaust, complete, would have to come out. This stuff could just stay in place coming out the top. Plus you would not have to have the front end a good three feet in the air! You would have to have a lift to even think about that. Not trying to be a smart azz but think it through.

beaverman · October 23, 2015, 07:17 PM

Quote from: Rickf1985 on October 23, 2015, 06:54 PM
Do you realize how high in the air you would have to have the RV to get that motor out form under there? Not to mention the special adapters needed to handle a motor from below. You would have to remove a LOT more stuff to do it that way, the suspension should not make a difference since it is outboard of the frame but all of the engine mounting hardware and exhaust, complete, would have to come out. This stuff could just stay in place coming out the top. Plus you would not have to have the front end a good three feet in the air! You would have to have a lift to even think about that. Not trying to be a smart azz but think it through.

EldoradoBill · October 23, 2015, 09:33 PM

Quote from: Rickf1985 on October 23, 2015, 06:54 PM
Do you realize how high in the air you would have to have the RV to get that motor out form under there? Not to mention the special adapters needed to handle a motor from below. You would have to remove a LOT more stuff to do it that way, the suspension should not make a difference since it is outboard of the frame but all of the engine mounting hardware and exhaust, complete, would have to come out. This stuff could just stay in place coming out the top. Plus you would not have to have the front end a good three feet in the air! You would have to have a lift to even think about that. Not trying to be a smart azz but think it through.

You will need to raise the front maybe a foot higher than it would be with the wheels and tires on, when you pull the bumper and the radiator support it will come out the front. No cutting or welding required everything bolts on. I'd personally much prefer to deal with mechanical stuff than make a mess of my interior. But to each their own.

Bill

Rickf1985 · October 24, 2015, 09:01 AM

Somewhere I have pictures of mine when I did the water pump and there is a cross member right in front of the engine. I do not see where the radiator support would make any difference at all because it is well above this cross member. You are going to have to get below the cross member to get it out so the cross member will have to be high enough to clear the top of the block and whatever the engine is riding on. As far as the inside, put plastic or tarps down on the floor and wood under anything heavy and it will stay clean. Just part of the job. The only one I have ever seen come out the bottom was one that was posted on here but it was a Dodge with a straight front axle and everything in the front was able to come out. It was still way up in the air.
Here is the pic of mine, you can clearly see the cross member under the front pulley. That is just the from of the cross member it goes back to the pan. It is a LOT more involved than four bolts since it is inside of the frame rails and has all of the brake lines in it also.

gpw9552 · October 24, 2015, 09:57 AM

The shop in Cedar City, UT that did mine took it out the drivers door.
Shouldn't be much difference between my 1987, your 1988, and Rick's 1989.
Only got to talk to the shop owner for about 5 min yesterday but he gave a quick overview on how they did it.
1. Remove the radiator, AC coils etc.
2. Remove all accessories off the front of the engine, alt, fan etc
3. Remove the transmission and torque converter
4. Remove exhaust manifolds and DRAIN the oil
5. Remove the driver seat/mount and the steering wheel
6. Remove the oil pan for extra clearance when coming out the door (there is a strap on the door that has to be removed so the door can open more than 90 degrees.
He also recommend using packing/moving blankets to cover everything including the floor from the main entry to the dog house. They will absorb any oil drippings.
Job is LABOR INTENSIVE!!!
While your there have the radiator serviced.

beaverman · October 24, 2015, 11:54 AM

Quote from: gpw9552 on October 24, 2015, 09:57 AM
The shop in Cedar City, UT that did mine took it out the drivers door.
Shouldn't be much difference between my 1987, your 1988, and Rick's 1989.
Only got to talk to the shop owner for about 5 min yesterday but he gave a quick overview on how they did it.
1. Remove the radiator, AC coils etc.
2. Remove all accessories off the front of the engine, alt, fan etc
3. Remove the transmission and torque converter
4. Remove exhaust manifolds and DRAIN the oil
5. Remove the driver seat/mount and the steering wheel
6. Remove the oil pan for extra clearance when coming out the door (there is a strap on the door that has to be removed so the door can open more than 90 degrees.
He also recommend using packing/moving blankets to cover everything including the floor from the main entry to the dog house. They will absorb any oil drippings.
Job is LABOR INTENSIVE!!!
While your there have the radiator serviced.

And when it goes back in, new water pump, power steering pump, motor mounts, hoses belts etc, not to mention inspecting everything else that's easier to see and access with the motor out!

EldoradoBill · October 24, 2015, 04:08 PM

However it comes out and goes in, it will be a labor of love. Good luck, do it right the first time, and be prepared to enjoy the rig for many years to come!

Bill

TerryH · October 24, 2015, 07:52 PM

And when it goes back in, new water pump, power steering pump, motor mounts, hoses belts etc, not to mention inspecting everything else that's easier to see and access with the motor out.

It's obvious from your posts that you know what you are doing engine wise and amenable to suggestion when dealing with a big block in a RV. Not quite the same as a rat rod, 4X4, pick up etc.
Change your water pump - change all belts at the same time and keep the old for emergency replacement.
Change your head gaskets - change the timing chain at the same time.
Large difficulty with these RV's is access, compounded when you are on the side of the road during a rain storm. If what you are replacing now due to necessity gives you easy access to consumable (and inexpensive) parts at the same time, PM says replace those as well.
Glad to hear that you are not going to go crazy with a torch.
Terry

cook elandan · October 24, 2015, 09:14 PM

It is all in your planning. In my elandan, I took the motor out the passenger door. it also helped that my cousin had a forklift with a boom that went in to the engine bay and was able to lift it out and out the door. I did all the prep to remove from the front of the motor and headers. disconnected the trans and as he lifted the motor, slide it enough to pass the bell housing. As i had been cleaning up the engine bay, i took the front grill and seen that going back in is going to go through the front. I believe that i also have the cross member but the motor should clear it just enough before i need to start to lower it back down. So like said, Plan well and think it through. IMO.

FastGlassman69 · February 08, 2016, 07:09 PM

Hell guys , too much overthinking! I took the 318 out of my Dodge van thru the passenger door with a few cement blocks and a 2" steel pipe, greased the pipe up , jacked the motor from the bottom and kept cinching the chain till it was high enough and dragged it out the door, by myself! Doubt I would do it now, as i'm pushing 61 yo, but you know what they say about "Young and Dumb, but We Get it Done"! Went back in the same way! Bobby