60/40 Atifreeze/Water Ratio too strong or OK??

[stopngo]

Hello all

This is concerning a Motorhome with a Chevy 454 which is in the repair shop for Blown Head Gaskets and almost ready to roll.

I have been hearing that too strong Antifreeze mixture can potentially gel up or circulate slower along with reduced heat transfer setting up a recipe for overheating
and a Blown head gasket all over again. The Last thing I need after a 1700 dollar bill for Head Gaskets and water pump.

A 50/50 textbook mix is good to -34 F. The Repair Shop has it at - 50 F Freeze protection or approx. 60/40.

Any thoughts and opinions?

[HamRad Mobile]

Good morning, StopNGo; 

     It probably depends on where you are.  How likely are you to experience a low temperature that will be less than -34 degrees F. or so?  If you might get to that -50 degrees F. temperature, then that 60%/40% mixture is appropriate. 

     I do know that we have all been told not to go any higher than a 70%/30% antifreeze (ethylene-glycol) to water mixture.  The specific heat of the ethylene-glycol starts to reduce the ability of the remaining water to carry away the heat developed by the engine to be dissipated into the passing air by the radiator; another heat exchanging system.  In the final analysis, all of us really are driving air cooled vehicles. 

     If you need the freezing capability of the stronger ethylene-glycol mixture because of the low temperatures you get in the cold of winter, OK, do that.  But you may need to make some adjustment if you are driving through 100 plus degree F. temperatures during the Summer.  Watch your temperature gauge readings and make adjustments accordingly if needed. 

     If you have made some other compensating adjustments to your cooling system, as I have with the ATF external cooling system and the additional fan on the engine oil cooler for my Winnebago Elandan, then you might be able to run a higher percentage concentration during the Summer also.  It all depends on how you are getting rid of the heat developed by all the different assemblies in your motor home; the engine, the transmission, the front engine driven air conditioner, et cetera.  If the radiator is dissipating only the engine heat, then there is less thermal load on the radiator.  The normal assumption by General Motors is that we would be running a 50% mixture in our motor homes.  If we change things, then the overall thermal balance may change.  If we make the cooling system more efficient, then we have more room to play with the antifreeze mixture strength. 

     Again, the main question remains; "What sort of low temperatures will you experience during the Winter?" 

          Enjoy; 

          Ralph 
          Latte Land, Washington 

[Rickf1985]

Straight antifreeze will freeze before an antifreeze/water mix. It is a chemical reaction deal that I am not at all familiar with but I have seen straight antifreeze turn slushy at around -30. I never, EVER plan to be in temps that cold again!!!!!

[Froggy1936]

To answer your question No the mixture you have will not cause a head gasket problem . I don't know your driving conditions, But remember that the temp at the radiator @ speed is a lot colder than the ambient temperature . Ex @ 65 MPH in -10o weather the temp at the radiator can be -30o Frank                                                                           

[Rickf1985]

How can that be Frank? Wind chill only applies to skin, not metal. -10 is -10 whether the wind is blowing or not.

[Rickf1985]

Stopngo, you planning on camping in -34 degrees anytime soon? You realize propane will not boil fast enough below around 0 degrees to keep your heater supplied with enough gas. I used to do a lot of winter camping but heating a small tent is a lot easier than a huge RV. W%

[stopngo]

Stopngo, you planning on camping in -34 degrees anytime soon

Never have and never will. The point has been missed. 50/50 -34 protection is a Universal mixture that has very little to do with protection from cold temperatures.

Glycol raises the boiling point for one and acts as a lubricant for another. Of course Y'all knew that right?? I never once suggested that I want or approve of 60/40 mix or -50 protection..........matter of fact Im angry over it because that is what the mechanic did for me without my knowledge. This is why I posed the question to y'all so that I could decide to drain it and start over if need be. Apparently Y'all think its OK so Im not gonna lose any sleep over it. Hm?

[Rickf1985]

CALM DOWN!!!!!! The little extra will not affect anything. My bet would be that he put that mixture in after draining the system normally correct? Well you NEVER get all of the old stuff out, I would bet you had close to a gallon of old coolant in there and you mix is probably close to 50/50. Straight antifreeze would not hurt the seals at all, It would not cool quite as well but it sure as hell would be an expensive fill! If you are so worried about cooling, in which the difference between straight water and 50/50 as far as cooling goes is barely measurable, then go with a water wetter product. This creates a better bond between the coolant and the cylinder walls by lowering surface tension. To be perfectly honest, if your cooling is that close to the edge then you have other issues that need to be addressed like a clogged radiator or leaking head gasket or obstructed airflow through the radiator.

[DaveVA78Chieftain]

50/50 is the mix used by most in the Continental US because most do not see temperatures any where near -34 degrees.  Like me, few here are familiar with what is used in Canada or even Alaska where temperatures get as cold as you see there in Canada.  Since we never have to concern ourselves with temps that low, we never really think about it. So please state why you are asking (e.g. you live in Canada and see temperatures that low) so that others understand what is driving your question.

You are asking about antifreeze viscosity from the perspective presented here: http://www.viscopedia.com/viscosity-tables/substances/automotive-antifreeze/

Only thing I can say, is sites like this indicate 70/30 is the maximum you should use.  I would think that the viscosity question plays into the decreased performance of antifreeze at mixtures of 80/20, 90/10, to 100% antifreeze.

[legomybago]

If you have this much concern over 60/40 mix, just dump two gallons out of the radiator when you get the rig home, and refill with two gallons of distilled water. Wall-la, done, re-test. The only thing I have run into when running a stronger mix of ethylene glycol is the anti freeze will find a leak before straight water will. The stronger the mix, the more likely a drip will happen around a hose at cold start up etc...

[Rickf1985]

If you have this much concern over 60/40 mix, just dump two gallons out of the radiator when you get the rig home, and refill with two gallons of distilled water. Wall-la, done, re-test. The only thing I have run into when running a stronger mix of ethylene glycol is the anti freeze will find a leak before straight water will. The stronger the mix, the more likely a drip will happen around a hose at cold start up etc...

As will happen if you use water wetter. Any leak whatsoever will get worse and any possible leaks will leak. And you can measure the specific gravity of what is in there to see exactly what you have.

[stopngo]

I have stopped worrying long ago. I was when I started this thread and I wanted opinions and I got them and thanks y'all.
You did a great Job even though by some posts here it appears that some missed exactly where I was coming from.

Im an Antifreeze expert now........... 

[DRMousseau]

In the 50's and thru the 60's, we simply used "wood alcohol" as an antifreeze. It was cheap, effective, and freeze protection could be easily determined with a hydrometer. It DID cause some internal corrosion and some gasket problems, and was a problem for early radiators. A periodic good flush was really important. And it tended to evaporate away during summer. Didn't really have a good sealed pressurized system in those days, and checking radiator levels was an important part of service stops like checking oil levels.

Late 60's, something new came along,... it was called "coolant". A glycerol mix that was supposed to be better. Less corrosion, safer non-poisonous, better for seals and gaskets,... but is was expensive, and not really any better than alcohol's freeze protection. Because it was major part of "the solution", is was called a coolant and sold as ready to use. It's boiling point was higher, and that caused problems too, till "pressurized" cooling systems became the norm. It COULD gum up everything, so it was still important to have a good radiator flush now and then.

When those pressurized cooling systems became the norm, sometime in the late 60's early 70's I think, a "NEW IMPROVED" coolant made the popular scene. Ethylene Glycol had been around a long time but now, with "NEW" additives, it became better than alcohol or glycol for protecting the cooling system, AND had a lower freeze point that made it real popular in the north!!! AND about this time, things got real confusing between anti-freeze and coolants and what was best in "older" cars and such. The stuff was DEADLY hazardous, and you couldn't use a hydrometer anymore for testing your freeze protection level. This was when colorants were added to know you had a poisonous mix. And the controversies about what's best, raged among EVERYONE.

Propylene Glycol was quick to follow, non-toxic, till the necessary anti-corrosive additives were added,... so the colorants stayed. Although I thought one color was to denote ethylene glycol and another for propylene glycol, I'm not sure it's really the fact. Good freeze protection, lubrication and such, it became pretty much the norm in manufacture recommendations from about late 70's on. Really cant go wrong with it, if ya jus follow manufactures recommendations. Good for most anything, old and new. Still cant really get any good hydrometer reading with it though, and the common practice of occasionally flushing a radiator has still prevailed till the most recent of times.

Today,... with new light-weight, corrosion-free, plastic radiator housings and sealed "maintenance free" pressurized systems, they don't even have a drain on 'em much anymore, no need to!!! There's also a new "coolant" available now that you don't DARE use in earlier systems. Care-free seems to be the new norm today.

Can't keep up with it all anymore,.... and "I" don't have to! I'm retired like many others here,... and jus have take care of my own. That's whatever is needed to keep this thing from freezing up come January!!!

[stopngo]

In the 50's and thru the 60's, we simply used "wood alcohol"

I used Green Glycol antifreeze in the 60 s  where were you..... just kidding

Anyway Im supposed to be on the road by now but this place is just too addicting... :)rotflmao

Speaking of Wood Alcohol.........That would have been handy for us poor Canucks with our alcohol prices 3x US prices I could have snuck some back across the border with a custom built radiator......

[HamRad Mobile]

Good morning, StopNGo; 

    "  . . .   I could have snuck some back across the border with a custom built radiator...... " 

     Oh, that was bad.  However, it did bring back a memory of Robert Mitchum in "Thunder Road" with his 1950 Ford and a specially built custom "tank" in the trunk made by his "father," just for "transport." 

          Enjoy; 

          Ralph 
          Latte Land, Washington