Towing with a 22-25' Chieftain

Garys 68 · December 21, 2015, 11:05 AM

So I've decided on a 22-25' Cheiftain, 1973-78, but want to tow a car on a flatbed (5000lbs).
I'll be swapping out the Dodge motor for an 8.1 (500ft/lbs), 7.4 (410ft/lbs), 0r 6.0 (380ft/lbs) with a 4L80 and upgraded oil & trans cooler and bigger radiator so I'm not worried about power. I've read a few threads here on towing but most referred only to the engine capacity. But even though I'll have electric brakes on the trailer, I'm worried about brake capacity on downhill slopes. I did choose the 73+ because of the front disks.
Anyone here give me their experience with towing and brake capabilities (good or bad)?

ClydesdaleKevin · December 21, 2015, 08:24 PM

Biggest thing you have to worry about is the tongue weight of the trailer once your car is on it. These hitches are only rated to around 300 lbs tongue weight. Which is why I always recommend getting a 4x4 vehicle like a Jeep Cherokee, and towing it behind you, 4 wheels down.

Kev

bluebird · December 21, 2015, 09:08 PM

I pulled a 18 ft trailer with a car and golf car on it with my 80 27 ft Itasca, 454/400 turbo. The coach had hydro boost brakes on it, but it had all I wanted when it came to stopping. It had all new brakes on it too. The rear frame required major rebuilding before I towed with it also. After towing with a coach with 4 wheel disc brakes, I'd never return to rear drum brakes again. You have your work cut out for you on this project. Good luck

Garys 68 · December 22, 2015, 08:07 AM

I'm a little surprised these rigs are rated so low on towing. After all the frames were built for heavy duty rigs.
I wanted to go with a flatbed so I could back up, but I guess I could deal with a braked dolly.
BTW, here's the toad I was planning on bringing. A 70s car to match a 70s RV.

Bnova · December 22, 2015, 08:57 AM

I couldn't resist, it's not a 442 like yours(really nice by the way), but we really love this old beast. Sorry I couldn't figure out how to reduce the photo to fit.

[smg id=7662]

Rickf1985 · December 22, 2015, 12:50 PM

Gary, It is not the main frame, It is the extension that is welded on. Check a 22-24 footer because it may not have a frame extension and you could put a heavy duty hitch right on the original frame rear horns. If that is the case then you would be good to go as long as you keep the rear axle weight within spec.

Garys 68 · December 23, 2015, 10:01 AM

I guess I'll be crawling under one to check the frame. But doesn't sound like something a little welding couldn't fix.

Rickf1985 · December 23, 2015, 11:24 AM

On the long ones and especially the P30 based Chevy's it is a little more involved than "just a little welding".

Garys 68 · December 23, 2015, 01:36 PM

Well, I just downloaded the M300 manual. Tough to say from the pics, but looks like the frame to the rear crossmember is solid. And that's the mounting point for the rear springs. I'll have to get under one and see what's actually there, but looks doable.
The shorter 22-25' shouldn't have excessive rear axle weight or too much tongue weight.
I'm still a little concerned about the single caliper front, drum rear brakes though.

ClydesdaleKevin · December 23, 2015, 06:20 PM

As long as your trailer has electric brakes, you should be good to go.

BEAUTIFUL car, by the way! Classic American muscle!!!

Kev

kenwautoone · December 24, 2015, 10:50 AM

I have 24 foot 71 brave 413---Tow 24 foot enclosed trailer with 3200# mustang with 1000# tool box = 7500#.Drum brakes all around Rv + electric trailer brakes.10 years,no problems. did have to weld some support to frame extensions.cruise at 60-65,need to pay attention to craziness jumping in front of me here in las Vegas.

Garys 68 · December 24, 2015, 11:08 AM

Thanks, exactly what I needed! Even the same size & years I'm looking at.
How's the 413 for towing? I always prefer more torque when towing but still trying to pick a motor. A new FI chevy 6.0 (380ft/lbs) would give me much better mileage and is an easier install with a front sump oil pan. I suspect it would be similar to your 413.
I know the 8.1 would be a beast, but might be kind of overkill for the RV and 5000lb trailer. I would also need the engine moved back a few inches for the rear sump.
Your thoughts?

kenwautoone · December 25, 2015, 01:28 PM

Hi Gary,you are looking at a huge undertaking with this conversion. I don't know how much mechanical experience you have.I have built a lot of race cars and restoration work in my lifetime, was a part of a classic mustang business for 10 years. I would not attempt this! The 413/ 440 is a towing beast.why not just maximize whatever motor that is in the one you buy/ or have.you can add a 4 spd overdrive automatic behind it.I believe the company that builds those is Phoenix transmissions. If your thought is mileage, you are trying to push a big brick through the air.7- 10 mpg ( very optimistic ), is all you are going to get.just my opinion. Ken

Garys 68 · December 25, 2015, 01:56 PM

Ken,
Thanks for the advice. I'm not counting on finding one with a good 440 and I want something reliable enough to make the trip from St Louis to south Florida a couple times a year. If I can get better gas mileage, that's just a plus. Also plan on keeping this and putting lots of miles on it.
I'm pretty familiar with resto-modding old boats and cars, so the engine swap doesn't look to be much of an issue if the original Dodge motor looks "dodgy". Would also like updated interior,electrical, Gen, etc. About the only thing I wouldn't do is paint & bodywork. So this would just be the next frame on restomod for me.

The engine in the 442. Chevy 5.3 with a T10 4 speed. I got this as just sheet metal on 4 tires:

My 68 vette with a 6.0 LQ9, Richmond 6 speed:

And updated 1968 42' Chris craft, but still running the Original Carbed Ford 427 FEs and Kohler Gen with over 10,000 hrs. So I'm not entirely against old tech.

bluebird · December 25, 2015, 09:21 PM

I would worry more about the brakes than the engine and trans. But if you like to retrofit, go for it. I just bought my Daybreak a few weeks ago and pulled a s10 on a 18 ft trailer home from Mi, 65 70 mph and got 9 mpg. 454/4l80E, and I could have run faster. Every time I looked down I was running 75 + had to watch it, ended up turning on the cruise. If you're going to retrofit a 8.1 in it do the whole thing, wiring harness, ecm, gauges and everything.

Garys 68 · December 26, 2015, 03:04 PM

That's the plan, engine, trans, FI, ecu, etc.
I have more confidence in disk/drum combos vs drum/drum. But guessing I might be the first if I tried to upgrade to dual piston calipers up front. Hoping existing brakes with good electric trailer brakes will be ok.
I've pulled 10,000lb+ boats, so I'm used to looking faaaaaar down the road when towing.

ClydesdaleKevin · December 26, 2015, 07:14 PM

My 454 tows my 5000 lb 1985 K5 Blazer all day long, and all over the country, and we've been towing this and even heavier vehicles for years. A good running 440 should be able to tow your classic car just as easily.

Kev

Surfinhurf · January 16, 2016, 01:44 PM

My 26' Brave with a built Olds 455/T400 flat tows my Jeeps with no problem. Michigan to Quray CO and back 3 times, and all over the midwest camping. Here are a couple of pics when we took my son and his Jeep up to Michigan Technological University in Houghton Michigan.

LJ-TJ · January 16, 2016, 04:10 PM

Is that the stock front bumper on her or did you replace it. If you replaced it what make model is it. Hm?

Surfinhurf · January 17, 2016, 08:52 AM

Stock chrome bumper.. bling..bling

LJ-TJ · January 17, 2016, 11:47 AM

WOW! Can't say in 13 years I've ever see a stock bumper that pristine. WOW!

87Itasca · February 19, 2016, 12:02 PM

Quote from: ClydesdaleKevin on December 26, 2015, 07:14 PM
My 454 tows my 5000 lb 1985 K5 Blazer all day long, and all over the country, and we've been towing this and even heavier vehicles for years. A good running 440 should be able to tow your classic car just as easily.

Kev

Your RV has the same problem as mine....at an angle, it looks like a rig 10' smaller. Then when you see it in profile, it's a little mind-boggling.

Jonbbrew · May 16, 2016, 11:45 PM

73' Indian 413 pulling a rolling CJ5 is my future intention....should be no problem right?

Rickf1985 · May 17, 2016, 10:42 AM

Shouldn't be a problem unless you are in the mountains. Then you will have a braking issue coming down hills. I am guessing that the CJ has manual brakes and I am pretty sure that the brake Buddy type setups need vacuum power brakes to operate.

Jonbbrew · May 17, 2016, 11:11 AM

Quote from: Rickf1985 on May 17, 2016, 10:42 AM
Shouldn't be a problem unless you are in the mountains. Then you will have a braking issue coming down hills. I am guessing that the CJ has manual brakes and I am pretty sure that the brake Buddy type setups need vacuum power brakes to operate.

Agreed. It does have upgraded brakes to a vacuum booster set up. I do t know about brake buddy.