Melted plug wires, replace or repair?

[Dave1210]

Sent: 11/26/2003 1:30 AM

2 weekends ago on the way to the desert I melted a plug wire that feel on the header. At camp I taped the wire up a drove home w/ no problems but it did not seem as powerful as previous trips (Could be from an exhaust leak) Can the wire get ruined from just melting the insulator? If replace them what type should I buy? Also thinking of doing a tune up, any particular brands of caps/rotors/plugs to get for quality/price/performance?



From: mightybooboo
Sent: 11/26/2003 5:23 AM

"At camp I taped the wire up a drove home w/ no problems but it did not seem as powerful as previous trips (Could be from an exhaust leak) Can the wire get ruined from just melting the insulator?"

Dave,you hit on 2 problems I just had.I taped the plug wire but it was quite fragile and toasted,replaced with a set of wires from autozone,they were 8mm silicone,i think 7,5mm is stock.Told em pull out their best,they are nice wires.I added boot insulators from NAPA at 9 dollars apiece,makes a nice setup.I replaced manifold exhaust gasket with copperseals from JEGS.Went 4000 miles without a leak,they are like an 1/8 inch thick solid copper.The problem we have is warped exhaust manifolds,these fill in the imperfections.Went 4000 miles,first time ive ever gotton more than 1500 miles without a recurring leak. They are all they are cracked up to be.
Highly recommend that fix.

BooBoo



From: denison
Sent: 11/26/2003 6:39 AM

The burnt plug wire might result in misfiring, if it was the carbon conductor type. of wire You might not even feel the misfiring, just a slight power loss. When you do the tune up, check that your vacuum advance still works, by sucking on the hose going to it, and be sure to put a drop of oil on the felt wick at the top of the dist. shaft, its under the rotor. This lubes the centrifugal advance. A guy is selling a winny on ebay that wont go over 45 mph, and I bet the centrifugal advance being at the idle position is the culprit. denison



From: Dave1210
Sent: 11/26/2003 12:10 PM

Denison,     I found a bunch of points for sale on ebay for $8 each. THey are the Accel brand and the seller told me they will work for my MH but require frequent adjustments in the gap due to the spring tension. Should I get a set, do I need a new condenser?

BooBoo,    What engine are the plug wires for that you got from autozone, can I just tell them I need plug wires for a 440 truck, everytime I mention 413 at autozone I get weird looks. How much were the wires?

Thanks in advance. Dave



From: denison
Sent: 11/26/2003 12:38 PM

I would get the points from ebay and give them a try. The rapid wear might be due to not putting lube on the dist. cam lobes. There is a special -distributor lube- you use; it doesn't have a metallic thickener, so if it spatters it wont interfere with the operation of the points much. But of course you only put a very thin skin of it on the dist. cam lobes. The last time I bought points for the Winny -2002- the counterman offered me two prices - about $8 for the cheaper ones, and $27 for the better ones! I bought both, have put the better ones in, carry the others for spares. I always travel with a timing light in my tool box. I adjust the point gap with a dwell meter, about every 5 to 10 thousand miles; if I am careful I don't even have to rotate the distributor to be correclty timed.
I tell the parts places I want points for an early 440, like a 71 or 72 pickup. Same thing with the plug wires. I would get the condenser, but keep the old one for a spare, and swap it back in if the ignition is giving you trouble. A condenser can last a lifetime, or die in a year. I would also carry a spare ignition resistor too. denison



From: Enigma960080
Sent: 11/26/2003 1:13 PM

I used to run "Blue Streak" points in my 68 Charger. They were the only ones that wouldn't burn up in 2000 miles. That was many years ago and I don't recall the part number.



From: mightybooboo
Sent: 11/26/2003 4:09 PM

"BooBoo,    What engine are the plug wires for that you got from autozone, can I just tell them I need plug wires for a 440 truck, everytime I mention 413 at autozone I get weird looks. How much were the wires?"

Yes,I asked for 440 wires for my 440,I think around 30 bux.Im not sure if 413 wires are different.I usually ask for truck parts and tell them I have an MB400 and let them figure it out.Sounds like a question for Lefty or Denison.Sorry Im not more helpful.
BooBoo



From: denison
Sent: 11/26/2003 4:36 PM

The only difference the plug wires would see between a 413-1 and a 440-3, is that the exh. manifolds are below the plugs on the 413, but the exh. manifolds of the 440 are above the plugs. If anything the 440 wire set would have maybe another inch of wire length going to the plugs. The firing order is the same, the distributor cap numbering is the same.
Whatever, the 440 wires all fit nicely on my 413, and didn't have to dangle around. I fitted them thru the guides in the rocker covers, and put them into one or two wire supports atop the intake manifold. denison 



From: Im-still-Lefty
Sent: 11/26/2003 8:12 PM

Autozone??!! AAARRGGG!!!   lol, Yes, the 440 wires from a early 70's Dodge truck will fit nicely on a 413 as Denison said. With the only major difference being the routing of the wires due to the different exhaust manifold design.We carry an adjustable wire holder set tat mounts on each valve cover allowing the wires to drop down at each plug. Very neat set up. Two things to keep in mind though, first, specify whether you have points ignition or electronic as all the parts are different.ie: cap,rotor,wires,etc... second, although pricey, the header boot insulators are well worth the money to protect the boot and wire from heat. They come in a two-pack and are found in the NAPA Belden Wire Products Catalog. If needed I can post the part # if your local counterman cannot find them. Also we carry Wire sleeves in a roll long enough to do a set of wires that will insulate them up to 1000 deg. for the ultimate in durability (chaffing,burning,etc..) and peace of mind. You do have to remove the boot from the wire to slide the sleeve on, then reinstall the boot though. I have this setup on my Chevy 383 w/Heddman hedders and have three years without a problem. Lefty        (ps, Stay clear of anything from Accell, It's not very good Quality. A good brand is Echlin,Standard Ignition,or Mallory)



From: Im-still-Lefty
Sent: 11/26/2003 8:25 PM

RE: Special Distributer lube , It's called Dielectric Grease, Use it on te small tip on the points where the points contact the lobe, also put a small dab in each boot before connecting to the cap or sparkplug to prevent corrosion,sticking,moisture,etc... At NAPA the ignition parts come in two lines, Echlin-a premium brand that features higher quality,brass contacts,better fit and finish, and a better grade of resin in the (plastic) caps and rotors. And, Mileage Plus- An economy priced line manufactured by Standard Ignition for NAPA that focuses on giving the best value for the money. this line can be compared in quality to Autozone's and Advance's premium line at a lower price. They do not have a line that compares with Echlin in Quality. Lefty



From: Liv42dayOK
Sent: 6/25/2004 1:34 AM

I just got a set of MSD Super Conductor 8.5mm wires for my 440 from Summit (see resources PN MSD-31319).  They are custom fit so they are the correct length and have the correct mix of straight and angled boots (which are guaranteed not to pop-off for 5 years?)  They are awesome!  They have a 50 ohm/ft resistance compared to 1,000 - 1,500 of most other wire sets but are specially wrapped and cored fro greater EMI (Electro-Magnetic Interference) than the others as well.  The boots are massive and made of a synthetic/silicone material for strength and to resist heat.  Upper-mid range price of $75.  If these wires coupled with NGK Iridium IX plugs and MSD Blaster 2 coil won't get a full power spark to the combustion chambers,... nothing will!  I already ran with the plugs and coil and there was a very noticeable jump in snap in the engine and power. - Sob



From: Discoverer
Sent: 6/25/2004 10:36 AM

what motor is this? ....and the quality of the wire has nothing to do with toasting it. You should consider AT LEAST - building a shield - to prevent the header heat from cooking the spark plug boot. 



From: Liv42dayOK
Sent: 6/27/2004 8:46 PM

If you mean my motor, it's a 440-3.  I don't have, and won't use, headers and, the quality of the wire and boot insulation has a lot to do with it's heat resitance.  With headers though, I agree that heat shielding is a must for the survival of plug wires and the other wires and lines that run close to the 440 as is the quality of the headers themselves. 

An all-chrome set would be like running with red hot smelting irons on the side of the engine (they rust out very quickly too).  If not ceramic coated, or at least heat taped, (oh yes, heat taping a set of headers may void the warranty but, I doubt the warranty covers the melted wires and stuff as a result of not having any heat insulation) there is very little air flow area on that 440 beast to cool things down and there are posts describing the damage done because of it and the lack of heat shields and well insulated plug wires.
- Sob



From: Matt_Elyash
Sent: 6/28/2004 12:15 PM

You talk about burning points quickly, the mechanic looking at my rig with a chevy 350 noted that I have 12v at the coil instead of the specified 6-8 volts acording to the book. This means it was miswired or the balast resistor died. Anyway he says that will burn points very fast indeed. Since I am swaping to a Stock HEI ingition shortly it should not be a problem, since they want 12 Volts at the terminal on them.  Just a thought.

Matt



From: In2fire1
Sent: 12/22/2005 2:30 PM

Sob,
I have a 440-3 with the electronic ignition. Do you have the parts numbers for the follow:  1: MSD Super Conductor 8.5 wires (Resoursces PN MSD-31319)
2: NCK Iridium IX Plugs  3: MSD Blaster 2 Coil. 4: Distributor Cap. Or do I just call Summit and tell them what I need. Just don't want to order the wrong things.
Thanks Gil in LA.



From: Liv42dayOK
Sent: 12/22/2005 5:34 PM

In2fire,

The Summit order numbers are as follows:

MSD 8.5mm Superconuctor wires:  MSD-31319
MSD Blaster 2 coil:  MSD-8203

NGK Iridium IX spark plugs were from NAPA:  PN 7401.  But, I suggest using the "Super" instead, they're cheaper.  The Iridium IXs cost $58.56!

Distributor cap from NAPA:  M020
Rotor:  M013

You can get Mopar Performance or Accel Distributor caps on the following link, but they're no different from the ones at NAPA and NAPA is cheaper.  You should also check the availability of the wires and coil while you're at it.

- Sob



From: In2fire1
Sent: 2/21/2007 7:28 PM

Sob,
Got all the parts listed above and installed them and the 440-3 is running great. BUT, when I replace the cap a rotor I notice that the distributor is very rusty, wires as hard as a rock and old looking, it just looks like it should be replaced. I have replaced a lot of parts that look old and keep them as spares. I don't what to be stuck on a Los Angeles freeway if I can prevent it. My question is/are what type of distributor is best and where do I find it.
Thanks in advance Gil in Los Angeles



From: Phåråoh
Sent: 2/22/2007 9:24 AM

Gil,

I posed this same question to a Mopar Head, the father of one of our members who lives very close-by.  He builds antique, custom Mopar performance pick-ups and he made two recommendations.

First, to replace the OEM electronic ignition module with the MSD version.

Second, to replace the distributor with one of two versions.  The Mopar upgrade or the Summit version which is significantly less expensive.  He said it's exactly the same as the Mopar upgrade, but cheaper because it doesn't have the Mopar logo stamped on the cap.

Now, it's been a while since I spoke to him, so I don't remember if he recommended the mechanical advancedistributor to eliminate the vacuum advance or go with the vacuum type.  So, I've just sent him a message asking to elaborate on this and I'll let you know what he says as soon as I hear from him.

Any additional feedback from other members is greatly appreciated!

- Sob



From: In2fire1
Sent: 2/22/2007 6:09 PM

Thanks for the Info.
Do I just walk into NAPA with my old electronic ignition and ask for the MSD version? When you hear back with the type of the distributor if I can buy it at NAPA and it's Mopar I rather work with a person at NAPA then order it on line. It may cost me more but the guys at my local NAPA store have been great. They treat me great and don't laugh to loud when I ask dump questions.

Thanks Gil



From: Liv42dayOK
Sent: 2/22/2007 7:14 PM

The NAPA here does sell MSD components.  You could give them a call and ask what you need to tell them, although when I go to mine, I just tell them it's a 440-3, '74, 3/4 or 1 ton Truck, it doesn't matter, they're the same components.  I believe they reference to a D300 chassis.  Their books won't show an M series.

As a note, I've had excellent service from Summit and their telephone customer support is great.  I've always gotten the right info and the right part.  You can call (free), get the Summit part numbers from them, then go on-line to the Summit catalog, look-up the ignition and distributor, print the pages and take them with you.

- Sob



From: Phåråoh
Sent: 2/23/2007 12:55 AM

Ok, the distributor you want is the vacuum advance type.  The Summit part number is dcc3690428.  I don't know the Mopar one.  Thanks to Sarah Amspacher for getting me this info quickly!  - Sob



From: In2fire1
Sent: 2/25/2007 7:50 AM

Thanks of the info,
I will try Summit on line after I call them. The last time I used them they were not very helpful I know it's just one person on the phone, but he made me feel like I was not of any value. You think they would want my money! They (Summit) could use trainning from the members of Classic Winnebagos who no matter how dumb the question always treat people with respect.
Thanks for all the help,
Gil in Los Angeles



From: tiinytina
Sent: 2/25/2007 3:01 PM

My only 2 cents add on - is that having melted the entire top off my distributor at 10pm somewhere between Ny city and the CT border in my car..... it was raining hard and cold.... run a bead of caulk/sealant along the cap edge.  The engine I was running was also an "inbetween" year... new but old so it took 2 sets of wires to fix her. Had to buy a set from the year of and the year above.... to get a match.  (cap was year of manufacture rotor was year below)....

And on the phone if the person doesn't perform... just ask for the manager/supervisor.. actually works.... good luck!
Tina



From: In2fire1
Sent: 3/12/2007 9:28 AM

First of all thanks for all the information.
I took out the distributor and walk into the local NAPA store with the print out of this post. The guy readed it and order me the parts which I pick up the next day and installed. I think he learned a few things himself about the way people talk about part stores and customer service. Taking the motor home to the beach for a few days it's been in the 90's here and the surf is good.
Thanks Gil in Los Angeles



From: Phåråoh
Sent: 3/12/2007 5:19 PM

Great to hear, Gil!  Glad you're making the most of what RVing has to offer. 

A note on the MSD Super-Conductor wires:

Not only do they have an ulta-low resistance (which doesn't interfere with the radio, I found from experience), they have heavily insulated plug caps to protect from exhaust manifold heat.  These caps are long and easy to get a grip on and have a positive "click" so you know when they are properly seated.  But, for those of you with 440s... the best thing is that the caps are multi-angular, meaning you can angle them to the best routing position away from the exhaust components and other snarly things!!  Man, I'll tell you what, that's a big improvement over the stock plug cap angles!  If only everything on a 440 were as easy and cheap to get as a Chevy 454    (did I say that?!?!)

- SlapMyDodgeLuvinMouthSob