Over Torqued Headbolts on Big Block 454

[stopngo]

Last November I spent 1800 to replace Head Gaskets

I am losing coolant on a regular basis especially during idling presumably due to lower temperature as opposed to driving under load when the temp rises and
the head gasket tightens up.

Water never stops dripping out of the Tail pipe at idle and after a good run on the road and then stopping and idling the drip returns.

I asked the shop that did the repair at what torque they set the Head Bolts at. I was told 80 ft lbs which is correct but they did not mention anything about the 4 Short Bolts that Require 65 to 68 and when I mentioned it I could tell they knew nothing of it.

I then became suspicious and got out my torque wrench and took off a Valve Cover.

I set the torque at 85.......It clicked but no movement.......then 90......95......100......110 still no movement. Don't know how high but I stopped at 110.

110 is 38% over and the short bolts also at 110 are 65% over torqued. It so happens that the main journal caps on the 4 bolt main are listed as 110 so I assume somebody picked the wrong column in the chart.

I have heard that the Head Gasket will be damaged at that degree of over torque. Anything else I should worry about??

Thanks

[M & J]

Burning coolant has sweet smell and usually is steam, not drips. Also, any signs of combustion by products in the coolant itself?

[SLEETH]

if you over torque  the bolts they  over stretch and  in a worse case the threads in the block don't like it either.

[stopngo]

sweet smell and usually is steam, not drips.

Forgot to mention.....No shortage of steam.

My sense of smell is not great but what I can tell you is that If I Idle it on the driveway for 1/2 hour with a pan underneath the tailpipe
the amount in the two pans matches the  coolant loss. The dripping converts to steam when engine under load and enough heat.

[bluebird]

I would be pulling the plugs and inspecting them very close right after a run. Have you pressurized the radiator to see how much leak down you have?  Usually but not always when a head gasket is leaking coolant you will have a over heat problem. Now if the intake gasket is leaking it could be entering directly into the cylinder, but you should see that on the plug or plugs where the leak is. And is should have a miss.

[stopngo]

I would be pulling the plugs and inspecting them very close right after a run. Have you pressurized the radiator to see how much leak down you have?  Usually but not always when a head gasket is leaking coolant you will have a over heat problem. Now if the intake gasket is leaking it could be entering directly into the cylinder, but you should see that on the plug or plugs where the leak is. And is should have a miss.

Radiator was just checked out by professionals. As far as leakdown test by pressurizing entire system have done that and no pressure loss that I could detect.

Taking out the spark plugs was the first thing I did. All nice light brown and dry. Mind you it is a small leak at this stage.

[SLEETH]

question= any coolant in the oil? ie: oil level up on the stick?

[stopngo]

Oil definitely not rising on dip stick. That however is subjective because it does use a little oil so it would be difficult to determine .
If there is coolant in oil it is not enough to show milky or coffee colored.

I had the Radiator out 2 weeks ago and had the antifreeze which I drained sitting in a pan for a few days. After 4 days there were tiny specs of oil floating on the surface. I cannot say whether that was left over from before the gasket replacement last November or not. The coolant was changed of course for the new gasket but it may take 2 coolant changes at least to purge it all.

[SLEETH]

have you done a combustion analysis on the cooling system?

[stopngo]

Not as yet.........But If I am losing coolant and there is no external leakage why do I need to bother?

My main purpose in this thread is to get a feel of potential Damage above and beyond the Gasket. Bolts and Gaskets are replaceable. The head and block is another thing.

Leakage is confirmed.

[bluebird]

Radiator was just checked out by professionals. As far as leakdown test by pressurizing entire system have done that and no pressure loss that I could detect.

Taking out the spark plugs was the first thing I did. All nice light brown and dry. Mind you it is a small leak at this stage.

Any leak will show up in a pressure test of the radiator. Are you sure the water coming out of the exhaust is coolant? Have you tasted it? It could just be water from combustion. Both of my coachs with 454s drip a lot when the engine is cold. I can start my Daybreak and with in a couple minutes there is water dripping out of the tail pipe. If the plugs all look the same it may not be coolant. Take it out for a good 30 minute run and see where it's at. That will dry it out. If a head gasket is leaking into the water passages it will over heat in no time at all, because it will have combustion pressure in the cooling system. Now if it is leaking on the suction side, that would be an intake leaking, but that would also show up on a leak test of the cooling system. Even a cracked head will show up on that test.

[SLEETH]

question= where the heads gone over by a competent machine shop before installing?

[stopngo]

Both of my coachs with 454s drip a lot when the engine is cold.

I used to believe it was normal myself but mine does not stop.

My quote from the first post......."
Water never stops dripping out of the Tail pipe at idle and after a good run on the road and then stopping and idling the drip returns."

The Radiator Man  (best in town) told me the drip should stop after a few minutes.

Have you tasted it?

No......and you will probably want to shoot me when I tell you now that the water is clear. The unanswered question....why am I always adding coolant? If there is air in the system from re filling the cooling system that is causing displacement it has to be burped out at some point. On my last trip of 1500 miles one way I added one whole gallon until the air was finally purged but after that still a regular much smaller loss on the way home.

[legomybago]

Do you have an overflow catch tank on your radiator? If not, this would explain your coolant loss, and you having to top off the rad after a road trip.
Pressure test the cooling system again, and let it set over night if need be, and really examine the entire front of that rig with a flashlight looking for a leak.
How strong of antifreeze to water is your mix?

[87Itasca]

My '87 Itasca Windcruiser loses coolant. Check to see your overflow tank isn't cracked anywhere.  Mine is, and it isn't obvious either. As the coolant heats up, it expands enough to slowly weep, then as it cools it will contract enough to stop the coolant from leaking. In the process of finding another overflow tank with a decent capacity.

[stopngo]

Thanks Y'all 

Yes I have an overflow tank that does not leak and siphons back and forth as it should and that is where I check the coolant loss.

Good info .......Ill have to keep checking. Will let you know if I stumble onto anything.

[Rickf1985]

Not as yet.........But If I am losing coolant and there is no external leakage why do I need to bother?

My main purpose in this thread is to get a feel of potential Damage above and beyond the Gasket. Bolts and Gaskets are replaceable. The head and block is another thing.

Leakage is confirmed.

There is little chance of damaging the block or heads from over torquing. It could cause stretched head bolts that would quickly lose their tension and fail to hold and that could give a leak. Again, a combustion gas check in the radiator is the answer there. If what you are seeing in the exhaust is actually coolant then you would have to be losing a pretty fair amount and you would have other issues like over-pressurizing the cooling system with combustion gases.

Do you have a rear heater or hot water transfer heat to the hot water heater? If so look for leaks around those areas. Check transmission for coolant (that would be real bad!) since the transmission cooler is part of the radiator and they are famous for cracking.

[stopngo]

There is little chance of damaging the block or heads from over torquing. It could cause stretched head bolts that would quickly lose their tension and fail to hold and that could give a leak. Again, a combustion gas check in the radiator is the answer there. If what you are seeing in the exhaust is actually coolant then you would have to be losing a pretty fair amount and you would have other issues like over-pressurizing the cooling system with combustion gases.

Do you have a rear heater or hot water transfer heat to the hot water heater? If so look for leaks around those areas. Check transmission for coolant (that would be real bad!) since the transmission cooler is part of the radiator and they are famous for cracking.

Where Were Ya all this time??

Do you have a rear heater or hot water transfer heat to the hot water heater?

If you mean the coach Hot Water system then NO.

since the transmission cooler is part of the radiator and they are famous for cracking.

Rad just cleaned and checked at Rad Shop. Don't think so. Trans Fluid looks great

Again, a combustion gas check in the radiator is the answer there

Is that the DIY thing with the dye thing where it changes color??

[Rickf1985]

Sorry, Had a neurostimulator put in my back to keep me walking, Was off for a day. Yes, the one with the dye will work but if you want to be absolutely sure go to any station that can do emissions inspections and have them wave their exhaust wand over the radiator and see if it registers hydrocarbons. How much are you losing? If you can not find anything obvious get a little mirror and start looking at all of the freeze plugs to make sure one is not leaking but not dripping. You will not be able to see the ones inside the bell housing but that would be dripping out the bottom since there is no airflow to dry it. Check all around the water pump mounts and the back of the intake manifold. Other than a heater core I can not think of any other possibilities.

[cook elandan]

I have an 85 elandan 35'also.  Like Rick asked.  Do you have the rear heater for the back of the coach.  I have one that is under the bed in the back. there would be alot of coolant running through it if you happen to have a valve in the lines that shut it off.  Also my hot water is supplemented by the coolant system also. lots of room there if they may have drained the system when you had the head replaced.  this time of year you may have alot of condensation coming out of the pipes. they get hot.

[stopngo]

Thanks

Will have to do the dye test. Tried the emissions thing today but nobody has the equipment since smog testing went the way of the Dinosaur at end of 2014.

Am getting my oil tested for coolant content as well.

[stopngo]

I have an 85 elandan 35'also.  Like Rick asked.  Do you have the rear heater for the back of the coach.  I have one that is under the bed in the back. there would be alot of coolant running through it if you happen to have a valve in the lines that shut it off.  Also my hot water is supplemented by the coolant system also. lots of room there if they may have drained the system when you had the head replaced.  this time of year you may have alot of condensation coming out of the pipes. they get hot.

Like Rick asked.  Do you have the rear heater for the back of the coach.

I like what I am hearing but I must admit you have me bewildered. Are you suggesting there are antifreeze coolant lines from the engine going all the way back to underneath  the left rear bed acting as an assistant to the potable hot water tank?? i??

[BrianB]

Are you suggesting there are antifreeze coolant lines from the engine going all the way back to underneath

That is exactly what he is suggesting. I have those lines on my 86 Chieftain. Two 1/2"-ish pipes running parallel right above the driveshaft.

[stopngo]

That is exactly what he is suggesting. I have those lines on my 86 Chieftain. Two 1/2"-ish pipes running parallel right above the driveshaft.

You mean lines that carry sweet smelling automotive Antifreeze?? Blow me Down. Not sure  I can wrap my head around that yet. I never thought of starting the old Gas Guzzler to help heat the water. Is this what Y'all do?? Hm? Cheaper to boil water on stove...No?

All kidding aside..........Really?

[TerryH]

These are two separate items.
For your water heater, if the model number on an Atwood has an "H" for the second digit (ie. GH6-6E) the H refers to heat exchanger in the water heater that is serviced by the engine hot water. It preheats water in the water heater while the engine is running and the water heater is shut off.
If there are lines running from the engine rearward to the area under your bed you have an optional rear heater, similar to your dash heat. If this is the case you should have a "rear heat" switch on the dash for the fan. You also will have an additional area to check for possible leaks.