How does the power work in my RV? (1973 D18 brave)

[perlgurl]

I bought a 1973 D18 Brave at the end of last summer, sort of on a whim.  The previous owner was using it as a "driveable tent" but has said that all the things worked (propane, stove, fridge, water, etc) except the shower when he bought it, but they never used those amenities and I neglected to ask about how to use them so now I'm fumlbling trying to figure out how to get my RV ready for summer use. 

I'm trying to understand in general how power works for the RV when the RV is parked.  From what I understand the furnace needs power plus propane (I've got a nice thread about getting my furnace working here: http://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php/topic,12376.0.html ).

Once I dive into the water heater I imagine it might have a power requirement plus the propane. 

Anyway, I'm totally new to using an RV and don't seem to be fully grasping how the power works when the vehicle motor is off. Also, writing things out seems to help me understand so I might be repeating myself a bit here, but please indulge me:

I understand there are three ways to get power to my RV:
1) shore power (city electricity). 
2) a generator that came with the RV
3) battery power

I plan to be boon-docking most of the time so options 2 and 3 will be the most interest to me eventually, but for testing purposes while I try to understand how to get an appliance working (the furnace for now) that needs electricity I think hooking up to city electricity is the easiest way to get started.

So with that in mind, how to I: 
1) switch to city power
2) test to see if the power is on (plug something into an outlet maybe?)
3) make sure that power is getting to my device that I'm testing (the furnace)

I've included photos of my converter and the "fuse box thingy" (terminology is not my strong point!) for reference.  I'll put the battery bay in the next post due to posting limits of 4 images per post. 

[perlgurl]

Scary battery bay.

[M & J]

Well, hello again.   That isn't as scarey as some we've seen. I need a little time to absorb all the pictures and your questions ma'am.

[LJ-TJ]

Hey Kiddo your doing great. The only dumb question around here is the one you don't ask.

[Rickf1985]

Great pictures!!! I wish most of the people would do this when they ask questions. That fuse box is interesting, you have two fuses marked heater, one with no wire. Do you have a volt meter? Remember, once you plug into the shore power you are now going to be working with power that can hurt or kill you. The appliances that you mentioned are all low power/ 12 volt appliances so will be running off of the battery and the converter. Like Mike I am going to take a few and try to find the wiring diagram for that coach so I have a better idea of what I am talking about. Be back in a little bit.

[Rickf1985]

OK, The only diagrams I found were useless so it is by eye. You are going to need some way of checking for power, a meter or test light, do you have either?
It appears that the switches in the boxes are in the right place although I cannot quite see the one on the converter. When you are plugged into shore power you should have 12 volts at the wire coming into the bottom of the fuse panel (strip of fuses). Then check the top of each fuse to see if there is 12 volts at the top of each fuse, they can go bad and still look good. If this all checks out good then it is time to go to each appliance and check to see if you have power at them. You might as well check the heater first since you were just there. If you have power there then bump the thermostat up and the fan should start running. If not then you will have to determine what is wrong, could be a bad ground or backwards wire. Check your interior lights and outlets, when pluged in all of you regular outlets should work in addition to the smaller 12 volt lights that would be only when off grid.

A multi meter is a necessity for working on any electrical stuff, you can get a good meter for 25.00 but I like the better ones for 60-75.00. They are just asier to use wiyh automatic range setting and better features. And a good meter will last you a lifetime.

[LJ-TJ]

This might be of help. i??

[LJ-TJ]

 i?? Maybe.

[LJ-TJ]

 D:oH!

[Rickf1985]

That is a BIG help! Let me know when you are ready to get back to this Perlgurl. And I am sure Dave will jump in this evening with his great graphics.

[perlgurl]

I got my RV hooked up to shore power and was able to see that the interior was getting power immediately since the bathroom light was on.  I also plugged something into a wall outlet and it worked as well, so that gave me hope.

I then turned on the propane, and turned up the thermostat and the furnace fan started up right away.  Pilot light lit and the furnace is blowing nice and warm now. 

Now I want to do this while boon-docking so I am looking for help on the aux. battery hookup. 

I printed and read through the screenshots that LJ-TJ provided and they were a huge help (of cource the furnace only run on the aux and I don't have that so I was trying to start it on the vehicle battery like a dope!).  The 1973 chieftain manual (download) I have been using to get by has just enough differences that it's made this a bit more complicated so having this info was super helpful. Thanks TJ! 


I actually re-discovered today I have all the manuals for all the things; I think I recall finding them wen I first got the RV last summer,  but they were in rough shape, kind of old, gross and moldy-like, so I sort of forgot about finding them and ignored them!

[perlgurl]

Now I want to do this while boon-docking so I am looking for help on the aux. battery hookup.

In my testing of the fuses using a Fluke VoltAlert non-contact voltage tester (it's all I've got on hand right now) I got the following results (checks mean it shows power, "X" means no power):

[M & J]

I've seen something at least once where Super Dave (what some of us call him) has posted very good diagrams on your setup. The comp is an air compressor the older coaches used to use air pressure to make the fresh water system work. Many were converted to a modern water pump system in case you can't find that. I'll keep searching the forum for those diagrams.
Rick - TJ - Terry, you guys know which ones I'm talking about.

[Rickf1985]

If those X's mean you have no power at the top of each of those circuits in the fuse box then the fuse is probably blown (or missing as in one or two) since the bottom buss bar should be hot all the way across. A lot of the time the fuse will get corrosion on the contact and just removing it and putting it back in a couple times cleans things up and restores power. If that does not work and there is power at the bottom of the fuse then it is bad. I am not going to comment on the batteries because I know that Dave has a lot more experience on the older systems like yours and will probably know exactly what goes where. I could figure it out but he knows.

[Rickf1985]

I know the ones but I couldn't find them either, that is why I said to wait for Dave. I am pretty sure on the batteries but he is real sure and has pretty pictures to go with it.

[LJ-TJ]

A Fluke! Now this girl is serious. Great tester. Your going to have some real challenges a head. I'm going to open Pandora's box here. Lauren and I do a lot of boon docking and we played around with the RV/Marine batteries and after many dollars and driving the guys here crazy we went with two 6 volt Trojan batteries. If it were me and I had to start over I jump right in pay the extra couple of dollars and buy Trojans right off the bat.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-trojan-T-105-6V-6-Volt-Golf-Cart-Battery-battery-RV-marine-solar-deep-cycle-/301897675702?hash=item464a80f3b6:g:kbwAAOSwUV9WmDmM

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1311.R1.TR3.TRC2.A0.H0.X6+Volt+Trojan+golf+ca.TRS0&_nkw=6+volt+trojan+golf+cart+batteries&_sacat=0

[Rickf1985]

TJ, That post is wide open for misinterpretation! W% D:oH! :)rotflmao :)rotflmao :)rotflmao :)rotflmao :)rotflmao :)rotflmao :)rotflmao :)rotflmao

[LJ-TJ]

 D:oH! Awwwww WHAT WAS I THINKING D:oH!

[perlgurl]

If those X's mean you have no power at the top of each of those circuits in the fuse box then the fuse is probably blown (or missing as in one or two) since the bottom buss bar should be hot all the way across. A lot of the time the fuse will get corrosion on the contact and just removing it and putting it back in a couple times cleans things up and restores power. If that does not work and there is power at the bottom of the fuse then it is bad. I am not going to comment on the batteries because I know that Dave has a lot more experience on the older systems like yours and will probably know exactly what goes where. I could figure it out but he knows.

"(checks mean it shows power, "X" means no power)" 


Not that is is all unplugged I'll go take them all out and wire brush them and stick them back in and test again with shore power.

I'm still not really sure how the furnace works since one "heater" fuse (the furthest-most left side one, with the wire coming out the top) does not work and the other "heater" fuse (the right side one without the wire) did show voltage (but, no wire? how does the power get to the magical place to make it go without the wire?)

[perlgurl]

I'm planning on boon-docking for a week in Denali in the Teklanika camground which does not have any RV supplies (no power or water or anything).  Per park rules generator use is limited to only a couple hours a day in the morning and evening (for cooking purposes more than anything). Folks stay in this campground in tents and I've been a tent camper for decades, even up here in Alaska, so I can deal with being cold if need be, but it would be nice to be able to turn on the furnace if it dips below 30-40F during our week-long stay.

Rickf1985 mentioned in my furnace thread something about boon-docking and furnace being a big draw on the AUX power.  If I have questions about how much propane to expect to use for a week and how long my AUX power will last or what I could do to improve it or recharge it, shoudl I do that here or in a new thread?  It's related, but I could see a long discussion going on and on about boon-docking.
And I figure worst comes to worst we use the RV as a driveable tent with use of the stove and furnace during the limited generator-allowed time for our week stay.  But it would be nice to be able to be warm in case of snow and / or rain.   

[Rickf1985]

"(checks mean it shows power, "X" means no power)" 


Not that is is all unplugged I'll go take them all out and wire brush them and stick them back in and test again with shore power.

I'm still not really sure how the furnace works since one "heater" fuse (the furthest-most left side one, with the wire coming out the top) does not work and the other "heater" fuse (the right side one without the wire) did show voltage (but, no wire? how does the power get to the magical place to make it go without the wire?)

My educated guess would be that sometime in the last 43 years someone has re-routed the wire for one reason or another. Is the heater in close enough proximity to the fuse box that if you tug on the heater wire lightly you may see a wire move at the fuse box? If they are not real close do not even try it since you do not what was done. You can leave the heater on and pull the fuses one at a time and see if any of then turn the heater off. Other than that you would have to trace the wire backwards from the heater. If one of the fuses does turn it off then you know what circuit to look at to see where they tied the heater in. You do want it fused so it is a good idea to do some detective work.

[Rickf1985]

I'm planning on boon-docking for a week in Denali in the Teklanika camground which does not have any RV supplies (no power or water or anything).  Per park rules generator use is limited to only a couple hours a day in the morning and evening (for cooking purposes more than anything). Folks stay in this campground in tents and I've been a tent camper for decades, even up here in Alaska, so I can deal with being cold if need be, but it would be nice to be able to turn on the furnace if it dips below 30-40F during our week-long stay.

Rickf1985 mentioned in my furnace thread something about boon-docking and furnace being a big draw on the AUX power.  If I have questions about how much propane to expect to use for a week and how long my AUX power will last or what I could do to improve it or recharge it, shoudl I do that here or in a new thread?  It's related, but I could see a long discussion going on and on about boon-docking.
And I figure worst comes to worst we use the RV as a driveable tent with use of the stove and furnace during the limited generator-allowed time for our week stay.  But it would be nice to be able to be warm in case of snow and / or rain.   

If you get two thirty lb. tanks then you should be plenty good for the week especially if you are not trying to keep it at 80 degrees inside. Battery power should be talked about on the other thread but just a quick note would be to buy two 6 volt Trojan deep cycle batteries if you have room for them. You should be good to go for power with them for a week again if you are not running the heater full time. If you are a tenter then you already are used to conservation of supplies, this is no different.  Sorry, I just realized we are already ON the other thread. Been bouncing back and forth and lost track.
One other thing to look for is a good charger for the batteries. The one in there if it is original will not be very good for recharging in a short or efficient time. Old style chargers charged at one rate and one rate only and you had to constantly add water to the batteries. New chargers monitor the charge level of the battery and charge in stages. Much batter for the battery and they will not overcharge. If you can only run the generator for a couple hours then a newer charger would be ideal since it would go pretty far towards a full recharge in that period. I have a 45 amp Boondocker but there are several brands out there. Probably the best place to get one is Best Convertor. http://www.bestconverter.com/

[perlgurl]

Well, shoot.  I had typed up a whole message about the battery bay and I seem to have lost it!

I think my AUX battery is missing the positive wire.  (see image) I even used the creeper and dared the muddy snow filled driveway to get under the RV to ensure the wire was not someplace I could not see from the door. 

Can I just replace this with a regular set of positive and negative battery terminals or if I'm going to go the 6V method, how does that hookup work exactly?

Also, any tips on making that battery drawer slide better? Wd-40 or some white lithium grease on the metal slides maybe? Or a replacement part maybe?

[TerryH]

Others here are far more qualified to answer your power questions, so I'll bow to them.
One thing though, as Rick said, your furnace - actually it's the furnace fan - is a very large draw on your battery. And, as I think you are now aware, the furnace will not ignite until the fan comes on. Further, when the ambient heat reaches the set temp the furnace cuts off the propane supply. The fan however keeps running for a couple of minutes to exhaust unburned propane. What you should be aware of is that, should you inadvertently run out of propane while the furnace is on, the fan will continue to run until you manually shut it off. Either by pulling the fuse or, if equipped with a digital thermostat, turning it off. Been there.
As for your manuals, appears you have a good supply. Kudos to the previous owner.
They do make good reading on a cold winter night.
Congratulations on everything you have accomplished so far.

[Rickf1985]

Something does not look right with that wiring, or the picture is misleading. You have the vehicle positive and negative going to the same place unless the negative is behind the solenoid against the wall.