How does the power work in my RV? (1973 D18 brave)

perlgurl · April 07, 2016, 08:15 PM

Quote from: Rickf1985 on April 07, 2016, 07:32 PM
My educated guess would be that sometime in the last 43 years someone has re-routed the wire for one reason or another. Is the heater in close enough proximity to the fuse box that if you tug on the heater wire lightly you may see a wire move at the fuse box? If they are not real close do not even try it since you do not what was done. You can leave the heater on and pull the fuses one at a time and see if any of then turn the heater off. Other than that you would have to trace the wire backwards from the heater. If one of the fuses does turn it off then you know what circuit to look at to see where they tied the heater in. You do want it fused so it is a good idea to do some detective work.

This was a great idea! I've removed all the fuses and put them back. The fuses themselves seem to be in fairly good condition and even with my eyeglasses I don't see any reason why they wouldn't work. (Tracing the wire would not work since the furnace is on the other side of the RV from the electrical panel so I image wires have to travel fairly far to get to the thermostat)

I turned the furnace back on and found which fuse controlled the furnace; it is the left-most one that says "heater" (I'm taking notes on all this in a notebook too since my brain is about to explode from trying to understand and remember all this). Apparently I don't know how to use my volt -thing or I wrote things down wrong. I'm going to have my husband check them once he gets home since he tends to do more of the electrical / detail-orientated stuff and I'm better at the mechanical stuff.....

perlgurl · April 07, 2016, 08:19 PM

I'm also not in a huge rush; my first trip is not planned until the end of May and I've got a HUGE whitebaord with lists of things to do to get ready, including some scrubbing and prep for comfort which I can do without all of your wonderful help

Rickf1985 · April 07, 2016, 08:24 PM

I am not going to be on here much in the next few weeks, I have a ton of stuff to get done on mine also for a trip in the beginning of may but the weather has kept me grounded.

DaveVA78Chieftain · April 07, 2016, 08:26 PM

1. You have one of the older systems. TJ's picture is real close to what you have
Be advised the cross connect solenoid (SINGLE/DUAL/MOM switch) in your battery bay picture is NOT shown on this drawing.

2. When we get the batteries straight, please understand that your very old converter has a manual BATT/CONVERTER switch to select between the battery and the converter output for 12VDC distribution. The black box in this picture:

TJ's wiring diagram implies the AUX battery is connected to the coach fuse block. It is not. It connects to the converter so the BATT/CONVERTER select switch works.

You need to pull each 12VDC fuse one at a time to determine which fuse operates which componens (lights, furnace, water compressor, etc.)

I suspect the Elect Toilet is for a Thermo-san system which you may or may not have. Now do not be squimish however a Thermo-san system used the engine exhaust to burn/vaporize your black tank contents while you drove down the road. Not sure I would want to behind someone using that.

Next post is battery connection

DaveVA78Chieftain · April 07, 2016, 08:45 PM

The negative leads from each battery get connected to the chassis frame. They DO NOT get connected to the cross connect solenoid. Only the positive battery leads get connected to the large terminals on the cross connect solenoid.

The cross connect solenoid is controlled by the Single/Dual/Momentary switch (small post on side of the can).

Single position: The solenoid is not energized so the engine alternator only charges the chassis battery.
Dual Position: The solenoid is energized so the engine alternator charges both chassis and coach (AUX) batteries.
MOM (Momentary): If chassis battery is weak or dead, you can hold the switch in the MOM position while starting the engine. It allows the coach (AUX) battery to jump start the engine.

For your setup, the coach loads wire is going to your converter for the BAT/CONV switch selection. I believe I see a auto resetting circuit breaker to the right of the cross connect solenoid. That will most likely be the wire that goes to your converter from the battery. A auto resetting circuit breaker trips on overload then auto resets. Will cycle if you have a short.

Your old style converter will NOT recharge the coach battery. You will either have to drive the vehicle with the single/dual/MOM switch in dual OR you will have to use a external battery charger to recharge the coach battery. While the original generator had a charge circuit on it, it was really to small of an output to really charge the battery fully. That output was only designed to restore the energy used for starting the generator and provide generator running voltage.

Rickf1985 · April 07, 2016, 08:51 PM

Dave, Somewhere further back I suggested she change to a Boondocker or similar charger converter. Thoughts?That way the genny could recharge the house batteries. Reply #23

M & J · April 07, 2016, 09:18 PM

To Dave's point on the solenoid, there should be no black wires on the large side terminals. Those carry +12v and should be red as the one is.
You show them labeled as negative auxiliary and negative for vehicle in your picture. Those should be red. Maybe someone changed the originals out for welding cable which is not recommended.

DaveVA78Chieftain · April 07, 2016, 09:34 PM

Quote from: Rickf1985 on April 07, 2016, 08:51 PM
Dave, Somewhere further back I suggested she change to a Boondocker or similar charger converter. Thoughts?That way the genny could recharge the house batteries. Reply #23

I have no clue what her budget is. I agree that would be a great upgrade in this case.

perlgurl · April 07, 2016, 09:35 PM

Quote from: DaveVA78Chieftain on April 07, 2016, 08:45 PM

Ok, I think I understand the diagram from Dave and if so then I did misidentify the AUX negative on my original photo. I've included these four photos (sorry about the fuzzy first one, but it gets the point across) Battery has red cable for positive that goes to wire nut thingy (solenoid?), black cable seems to attach to frame. There is a second black cable lying in the battery tray, which I thought was negative due to color. However it is also attached to wire nut thingy (solenoid?) so that is positive for the AUX?

And then based on the diagram the negative gets attached to the AUX battery(ies) through a daisy-chained from vehicle battery? I guess that is what I am missing.
I have seen the switch on the dash for the Single/Dual/Momentary and I had to read about that since I had no clue what it was, but this explains it SO MUCH BETTER! Thanks

perlgurl · April 07, 2016, 09:46 PM

Quote from: DaveVA78Chieftain on April 07, 2016, 08:26 PM

I suspect the Elect Toilet is for a Thermo-san system which you may or may not have. Now do not be squimish however a Thermo-san system used the engine exhaust to burn/vaporize your black tank contents while you drove down the road. Not sure I would want to behind someone using that.

After figuring out the water, I'm planning to look at this system. This is a couple weeks off most lilkey, but good to know. And I'll be sure to start a new thread if I have issues with it

perlgurl · April 07, 2016, 09:50 PM

Signing off for the night.

My brain is a bit overloaded from information, but I'd rather have it than not! Also, I made good progress today and I'm well on my way to getting stuff working so once again, THANKS TO EVERYONE!

M & J · April 07, 2016, 09:57 PM

Yes Joyce to the labels in those pictures above.

Froggy1936 · April 07, 2016, 10:21 PM

Excellent work, For a newbe, On your battery cables don't get confused by the color , All positives + should be red and all negatives should be black - But after all these years they could be any color that was handy when needed . When using 2 6 volts they have to be connected together to make a 12 Volt by connecting a positive to a negative Leaving you with (the same as a 12 volt battery) one positive and one negative terminal There are diagrams of this somewhere on here When you start using the rig you will learn the limits of furnace use wile boondocking Good luck Frank

LJ-TJ · April 08, 2016, 07:33 AM

D:oH! Hey! I don't recall seeing any pictures of your rig. Yeah think when you done fiddle'n around you can get us some pic's of your rig.

LJ-TJ · April 08, 2016, 08:34 AM

Just an observation of one of your pictures. That is the battery you are using to start your rig is a Marine grade battery. You might consider changing that out and using it as a house battery (battery to run your 12 volt system) and buy a really good battery for starting your rig. Deep cycle batteries are not designed to be used for starting. It's all good but since you seem to be of the mind set that if a job is worth doing it's worth doing right. D:oH!

Rickf1985 · April 08, 2016, 10:05 AM

It appears that everything you need is there short of some batteries and some cables. The way it is set up now I would guess that the vehicle will start but the power will not work in the coach unless you hit the switch for AUX start? Like Frank said you can ignore the wire colors and follow the wires to their source to see what they go to. If it attaches to the frame as the one by the outside of the coach then it is a ground wire. I have found over the years it is hard anymore to get battery cables in the color and length you need sometimes. Another thing a lot of people do not realize is that the p0sitive and negative battery terminals are different sizes. The positive terminal is just a hair bigger and the better cables are sized correctly for positive and negative. TJ, That is a marine starting battery so while no being the best it is not a deep cycle battery. being in Alaska though I would want a good strong automotive starting battery for the chassis battery and two 6 volt for the house batteries. Of coarse we are making these recommendations not knowing what your budget is.

DaveVA78Chieftain · April 08, 2016, 07:03 PM

Using 2 6 VDC coach batteries in series is a great option however, make sure you understand the connection differences with that option.

perlgurl · April 08, 2016, 07:21 PM

Quote from: DaveVA78Chieftain on April 07, 2016, 09:34 PM
I have no clue what her budget is. I agree that would be a great upgrade in this case.

My budget is flexible, for lack of a better term. I'm willing to pay to get things done right and I'd rather have the best that I can afford, but I'm an independent contractor and work comes and goes, and so does my income. I'm good at prioritizing, saving and planning in order to get the things I want. This more effective converter is on my list, but might be one of the later things I get. I'm sure I'll ask about in in future

perlgurl · April 08, 2016, 07:28 PM

Quote from: LJ-TJ on April 08, 2016, 07:33 AM
D:oH! Hey! I don't recall seeing any pictures of your rig. Yeah think when you done fiddle'n around you can get us some pic's of your rig.

Where should I post photos of my RV? I just took a bunch but don't want to post in the wrong place? General forum? Or Project?

Edit: posted into Projects here: http://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php/topic,12394.msg73484.html#msg73484

perlgurl · April 08, 2016, 07:32 PM

Quote from: M & J on April 07, 2016, 09:18 PM
To Dave's point on the solenoid, there should be no black wires on the large side terminals. Those carry +12v and should be red as the one is.
You show them labeled as negative auxiliary and negative for vehicle in your picture. Those should be red. Maybe someone changed the originals out for welding cable which is not recommended.

I'm easily confused and the idea of a black wire for positive bothered me so much that I bought a new red wire for the aux (coach) battery, once I get a new one. I also bought a black wire for grounding the aux (coach), but it looks like I need to daisy-chain that to the vehicle battery. I think I'm going to need more help once I actually get a second battery......

LJ-TJ · April 08, 2016, 08:18 PM

Piece of cake kiddo. Got it covered. When your ready we'll walk you through it.

perlgurl · April 09, 2016, 09:00 PM

Quote from: LJ-TJ on April 08, 2016, 08:18 PM
Piece of cake kiddo. Got it covered. When your ready we'll walk you through it.

Ha! Many forms of success today!!

First of all I figured out how to connect the AUX / coach battery!

perlgurl · April 09, 2016, 09:02 PM

I also feel like I'm understanding how to work the power in my RV, except for hooking it up to a generator. I've got a Honda generator that came with the RV and I'll try to figure that out, if not, I'll post a new thread about that.

I've also decided to return my two battery cables I got yesterday and instead replace all four cables with new cables (two red positive and two balck negative) that include the battery post connector thing since the old ones are super rusty and the bolts are rusted closed.

DaveVA78Chieftain · April 10, 2016, 01:09 PM

You plug the shore power cable cable into the generator

With your existing converter, to recharge the coach batteries while on shore power, you will have to hook up a standard external 12VDC automotive battery charger to the coach batteries to recharge them. 110VAC Power can be either a campsite plug or the generator.

The single/dual/mom switch in dual position allows the engine alternator to charge the coach batteries while driving.

perlgurl · April 21, 2016, 07:12 PM

Today I replaced the power cables, added the missing ground and then installed a new battery that is more appropriate for running the vehicle and will use the deep cycle battery that came with the RV for the coach power requirements. I also cleaned and greased the metal drawers slides and now even with two batteries the whole drawer slides so much more easily.