Wall Construction on 1985 Winnebago Elandan or other Similar Models

[stopngo]

Hi Y'all

Will get to my question shortly.

A while back my Winnie was hit and the outer skin was sliced open and other party 100% to blame.

Insurance company does not want to pay the entire amount of repair claiming that because there is delamination in the area that it amounts to a pre existing condition ie Wall rot that they wont cover citing that due to that existing condition it requires access from the inside wall in order to First of all Solidify and stiffen the inside of the FG skin in order to do the proper body work.

My argument to them is that whatever it is they claim as a pre existing condition has no bearing whatsoever on the procedure or cost of repair
because even if it was a brand new RV........the impact during the accident in cutting the skin open would have created a compressive effect
and thereby created an airspace between the outer skin and inside Luan or whatever they call it and created ....the exact same circumstances of having to access from inside with wall re construction in order to create a solid surface for body repair.

Now to the Question  Does anybody here know what the total thickness of decayable material is that is between the outer skin and the rigid Styrofoam?

And also I would like an opinion as to my contention that the wall would have to be accessed from the inside regardless of pre existing conditions to stiffen the skin whether a new unit or not with respect to a void being created by the impact regardless.

Thanks y'all
                                         
                                         

[Rickf1985]

The best I have been able to come up with is the luan is 1/8" and the fiberglass is 1/16". I just measured my glass so that I do know. The problem with the access bit is that technically there is no access to the inside of the wall. When this was made it was vacuum formed in place so it was basically built onto the coach. I have been trying for a long time to find feasible ways to repair the siding from delamination, and they do have a point about previous damage. The wall was structurally deficient where it was delaminated. If it was good and solid it would have torn but not separated. They have you on that one. All I have been able to come up with is my own ideas of using new luan and Filon to replace large sections. Like the whole lower half of one side. You would have to use a water based adhesive to prevent the glue from melting the foam board that the luan will be glued to. You can get a wood based epoxy resin that is the consistency of diesel fuel to paint the luan with and it will make it totally waterproof. This would have to be completely dry before assembly since that resin would melt the foam. I have no advice on how to deal with the insurance. Just the suggestions on the repairs.

[brians1969]

Rick are you going to be doing luan/filon work? I'm curious as to how hard that is-especially the filon to luan gluing part. The only thing I've seen on any boards was a guy doing luan/aluminum on a holiday rambler.

[Rickf1985]

I have seen that thread, the whole side? Amazing!!! I probably will but not this year.

[Rickf1985]

My "plan" if it ever comes together would be to paint the luan with "Rot Doctor" CPES, which is the thin epoxy I talked about. This will waterproof and prepare the luan for receiving a very thin layer of fiberglass followed by the lightly sanded Filon. This would be rolled out and weighted overnight for the bond between the two. Then the hard part, figuring out how to bond the assembled board to the side of the coach and hold it tight against the side. I am thinking 1/4" plywood which has some flex to it could be anchored at the bottom and brought up against the bottom edge and then long 2X4's could be propped against the top and pushed in to curve the plywood in tight against the side holding it in tight. Sounds easy but I plan on doing a whole side at a time, roughly 25 feet by four feet high. My sides are pretty flat so I may even have to build some spacers for the plywood to give it some bow as it pushes in to get the pressure I am looking for. That is the really preliminary idea, going to take some refinement I am sure.

[joanfenn]

Just found this,  Any good?

https://youtu.be/-M9CB0KRaTM

or this one?

https://youtu.be/8XeROaBV4t8

[Rickf1985]

I have found them in the past and they are good for delamination in the very early stages. Once it gets to the point where you have bulges and dried bits of wood falling out the bottom it is beyond this and this would actually be a bad idea. Think of what mulch looks like now picture that falling down inside the wall. Now pour resin into that and push in on the wall thinking you are going to be flattening the wall back against the studs.............. uh-oh, it isn't going in? Now you have a pile of mulch, saturated in resin which is getting hot due to thermal reaction and you are screwed. It gets hard in minutes because of the mass and you have a big lumpy rock in there. No, we need to be able to get rid of all of the mulch, which by the way is whats left of the wet and dry and decomposed luan, and then we need to get something back in there in place of it. I have found that once that skin has been deformed for a long period it is NOT going back into a flat position. I have a belt molding on mine above the basement compartments and I figured I could pull that molding and take out the windows and peel the skin off and put new luan on and put the skin back. First off, I am not sure how it is held into the groove at the top where it is constantly leaking and is covered in Eternabond this week. And second would be the few ares that it is actually still bonded although I doubt it would be that hard to get apart. The main problem is that the skin just does not seem to want to go back to its original position. If I do not sell the Pace Arrow whole And I get to strip it completely I will be able to get a better look at how the sides are constructed even though that one has different type of sides I think the basic design is the same.

[stopngo]

My sides are pretty flat

That factor alone is of no help to me either. My sides are curved. So if I understand correctly you would be doing everything from the outside??

[stopngo]

Sounds like its doomed. Maybe just keep driving it and hope the Filon doesn't get wind born on the Highway? Is that the ultimate eventuality?

[Rickf1985]

You could sand and fiberglass just the torn area. That is how it would have been done when everything was in like new condition. Get yourself a book on fiberglass boat repair and study up on it. Or if you want the more expensive version of the same repairs look for books on Chevy Corvette body repair.

It is hard for me to advise when I can't see it. Is the wood that should be bonded to the back of the glass all mulched and falling off? If so do you have access from the torn area or bottom to slide in new? A lot of variables but I would not drive it if there is a big flap hanging out.

[stopngo]

You could sand and fiberglass just the torn area. That is how it would have been done when everything was in like new condition.

I am very experienced with Fiber Glass. What the RV repair people tell me which speaks for itself is that it Must be accessed by removing the wall components from the inside and then creating solid backing and re gluing the outside skin back on. Then and only thenwould it be possible to fill and sand. Solid surface the key. Like building a house starting with the roof

No Flaps hanging out at all and all sealed and water proof temporarily with that red tape they use for Vapor Barrier in homes and painted to blend in somewhat.

Going on Vacation today and when I come back maybe Ill post a picture.

[Rickf1985]

Then they are not very familiar with the vacuum forming process that Winnebago and many other used for many years. You would have to cut away all of the foam  (which, by the way, is glued to the inside of the inside wall and the inside of the outer wall) to get to the outer wall and then how would you replace the foam as tightly as it originally was?

[stopngo]

Then they are not very familiar with the vacuum forming process that Winnebago and many other used for many years. You would have to cut away all of the foam  (which, by the way, is glued to the inside of the inside wall and the inside of the outer wall) to get to the outer wall and then how would you replace the foam as tightly as it originally was?

Interesting....I will ask them about that . I am beginning to feel like Im gonna end up doing it myself.

[Rickf1985]

I am in the process of removing, resealing and replacing my windows. I took some pictures of the wall innards along with how the inside and outside wall looks both good and delaminated. If you are interested pm me your e-mail and I will send them to you. I will get them up here eventually but I need to keep on this while the weather is good and I still have enough pain meds! W%

[Rickf1985]

Here are some pictures of the wall inside the window. You can see where the inside wall delaminated badly and also where I am holding out the outer skin where the outer skin is delaminated. Also you can see areas of no dlamination. You should be able to get a good idea of what is going on from this.

[Rickf1985]

Some more.



NOTE, This is the mulch that falls down behind the Fiberglass and bunches up.






NOTE in this picture, it is the bottom corner of a window, that they cut into a metal framing member. The only place in the window this was done.

[brians1969]

Are you going to be replacing any of the water-soaked paneling?

[87Itasca]

Not trying to be shitty, but mine has a delamination problem by my rear window that's made the wallpaper separate from the luan. No signs of exterior damage. Could I not just remove the warped pieces of luan, then just glue the wallpaper to the remaining wood and call it a day?

[Rickf1985]

Brian, Yes I will be replacing it eventually. Right now I am just trying to get ready for a trip in May.

87, I guess you could but it would not adhere well since the surface is not smooth. Are you sure you have all the leaks stopped?

[M & J]

Trip in May. You coming to Kentucky?

[TerryH]

Naw, he's coming to BC for our good Canajiun beer! :)rotflmao

[Rickf1985]

Aberdeen Md. for military vehicle show.

[Winnebago Warrior 94]

I am in the process of removing, resealing and replacing my windows. I took some pictures of the wall innards along with how the inside and outside wall looks both good and delaminated. If you are interested pm me your e-mail and I will send them to you. I will get them up here eventually but I need to keep on this while the weather is good and I still have enough pain meds! W%

hey rick do you have a thread or info on how you removed and resealed your Windows ..I want to take my windows out and reseal around them ..I have notice where the wakeboard is getting a little warped under the windows so I think they need to be taken outand resealed around them ..I was planning on using double sided eternabond tape but I'm not sure if that would be good ..I have some 1 inch double sided ..thanks

[Rickf1985]

Best thing for the windows is butyl tape. Get brand name and fresh. You would not want to use the double sided Eternabond because you would never be able to remove the window if need be and also the tape will not flow into the recess;s like the butyl. Both Terry and myself have put up threads on this subject. I had a bunch of pictures of mine with the windows out and all that. I don't know if it is still around or not due to the Photobucket thing but I still have the pictures if you need them.

[Winnebago Warrior 94]

I looked up threads and so far I haven't found your ..which type of little tape ..I have seen grey and black ..it there a certain type ..thanks